Honestly after putting in some 300+ hours into the game and many play-throughs one thing seems to be certain, Ulfric and his Stormcloaks are about as close as you can get to our own historical ... German leader prior to World War II and his group (not sure if that's a taboo topic here).

He is taking advantage of a bad overall economy for his people. He preaches Nord supremacy. He uses cruel and merciless methods in war (see Forsworn). He is rallying people over the restriction of Talos worship. The list just goes on.

Earlier I have played a character that joined them, a Nord of course. I followed the Stormcloak out of the first dungeon. Met his family. They gave their opinions of the war and why the Stormcloaks were the best thing for Skyrim. At the time it really made sense. I visited the Stormcloak camps and listened to the reason the various soldiers joined. But now, knowing everything I know (things that my in-game character may be aware of also) I just find it really hard to support them anymore. In fact even in every town that supports them you can find people, even Nords, which will speak out against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

At this point I am finding it really hard to find a role-playing reason to support him at all.

So my question is, if I tried, what would be good reasons (let’s assume Nord to make it easier) for my character to follow the Stormcloaks? I can assume some kind of personal lost (like the background in my sig) but even then you are joining them more because you hate the Empire more than because you love the Stormcloaks.

Thanks!

My character usualy always follows the Stormcloaks, and I don't see them as the bad guys. I don't think there aim is world domination as much as it is reclaiming there Nord honor that they feel the Empire is stealing from them.

At most you can say is that the Stormcloaks at least have a plan to deal with the Thalmor. The current and near future plan of the Imperials is just reuniting everyone and........blank. They got their army sitting on the border guarding against a Thalmor invasion, but they still let the Thalmor through to arrest, imprison, and execute anyone even suspected of worshiping Talos, meanwhile a lot of Imperials are in the closet about their Talos worship but they don't say anything. And that's basically who the Imperials are. Stand around, do nothing, take whatever beatings comes, and hope everything works out for the better someday.

So you get the broken down abused house wife (Imperials), or the crazy insane son (Stormcloaks) who is out to absolutely curb stomp the abusive, arrogant dad (Thalmor). And when it all boils down, I want to an elf head under my boot, not in the kitchen making hubby his favorite sandwich.

1. He does not preach Nord supremacy (never)
2. The only supremacistst are the guys he wants to fight, the Thalmor and their puppet-regime.
2. What has he done to the Foresworn you haven't done? (the Bear of Markath is an obvious work of propaganda)
4. "He is rallying people over the restriction of Talos worship."? He's rallying people against the restriction of religious freedom. How does that make him the bad guy?
5. He fights for the freedom of his people from foreign imperialism.

How's that for some roleplaying motivation?

I have to wonder if the Empire really thinks that Skyrim (if 'liberated') would actually do nothing if the AD invade the Imperials again. I can see Ulfric hitting the AD from the back side if they start something, forcing them to fight two fronts. I just can't see Ulfric letting all that glory of defeating the AD slip through his fingers.

1. Imperialism is generally considered an evil policy, you could make the case that fighting for independence is usually the right thing to do, as Nords should be able to rule Nordic lands

2. Imperials are suppressing freedom of religion

3. Imperials use summary executions

4. Plenty of people in imperial towns like whiterun hate the imperials, just like how people in Stormcloak Riften hate the Stormcloaks, so they counterbalance

5. This is debateable, but I think the Stormcloaks would be more able to fight off influence from the aggressive and obviously evil Thalmor

6. Again debateable, but I think Ulfric really did beat High king Toryagg (or whatever his name was) in a fair fight, I dont think it was murder.

7. The imperials did try to kill you for no reason

8. I'm not sure about the lore, so correct me if im wrong, but wasn't Ulfric working with the Imperials when fighting the Forsworn? Making the Stormcloaks equally as malicious to the forsworn as the imprials are?

Stormcloaks are not necessarily good,and neither are Imperials.This game is not black and white.

i dunno about good, but my Ka Po Tun Khajiit tends to see the " badguys " as the ones that tried to chop off his head

How and when did Ulfric "take advantage of a bad economy for his people"?


How and when did Ulfric "preach Nord Supremacy"?
As far as I can see he advocates Nord self-governance, not supremacy. Self governance is especially important now that the Empire represents values reprehensible to Nord culture.


War is cruel and merciless. The Forsworn aren't innocent victims either. Perceiving Markarth as "theirs", they sacked it while most of its defenders were off fighting another war. It should not have surprised the Forsworn that Markarth's residents would seek to reverse their fortunes.


He's standing up for people who have worshiped Talos for generations from a band of militarized thought police (Thalmor) who answer to no authority but themselves? Perish the thought!


My characters are equally split between Empire and Stormcloaks. Here are some of the reasons:
- The perception that the Empire has capitulated to the Thalmor, and that Skyrim has to fend for itself anyway, makes Skryim a de facto independent nation.
- That banning Talos worship is an act of totalitarian belligerence.
- The perception that the Empire lacks both the strength of morality and the strength of arms to rule Skyrim
- The idea that Nords can govern themselves better than the Empire can govern Nords (especially in light of banning a religion of particular importance to Nord culture)

As a Nord, I'd rather have us Nords rule ourselves rather than have the Empire and their Elven masters tell us who we can and cannot worship. In the end, they both play their political games. The Stormcloaks did not put my head on the chopping block in the beginning for no apparent reason.

well put.

I agree, the game is not black and white. I play as the Stormcloaks because I can see Ulfric Stormcloak being a Tiber Septim-like figure, reforging the Empire with the Dragonborn at his back.

Make your own story.

I had similar problems figuring out a reason to side with the empire. Go figure.

This.
Though im a massive Imperial supporter I agree with the theme of this Statement.
People have differnt idelogy and interpret things differntly.

IT'S JUST POLITICS. Just vote for the party that benefits you.

religion, even is you don't personally believe in talos (if your a nord you should) it's absolutely wrong to outlaw the practice of it when it has absolutely no negative impact on anybody, I even asked a thalmor about it, he said that it was an affront to his religious beliefs and therefore wrong, screw that, the outlawing of talos worship is an even bigger affront to their religion.

bottom line, the empire is weak and at the mercy of the thalmor, they claim that by joining the stormcloaks you are doing what the thalmor want, fine, but there will be a civil war either way and no matter what the forces of skyrim will be weakened, and at the end of the civil war I would rather be allowed to worship who i want while dealing with the thalmor problem actively, rather than still being oppressed and at the complete mercy of the thalmor.

there may not be any particularly good reasons to join the stormcloaks, but unless your with the thalmor there is absolutly no reason to join the empire.

P.S. I have never heard Ulfric or any of his high command be racist to anybody, even me as an elf, they merely want me to prove that I am a nord at heart, it's the same as the imperials wanting everybody to live the imperial waym the stormcloaks just want everybody to live the nordic way (regardless of your blood)

Well if you look at the Empire, it also mirrors the Chinese Manchuian Empire, weak and corrupted. At least the Chinese had the excuse of having to face an insurmountable opponent (8 technologically superior countries), the Mede Empire don't.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance

Rolff Stone-Fist is a racist jerk and the is actually related to someone in the Stormcloak High Command, the Dunmer are isolated to the slums, the Argonians are not allowed in the city, Ulfric is a dark Thalmor asset, so... Imperials are really the lesser evil.

Nord supremacy is one of his prime directives. There's a Nord soldier in Windhelm that will tell you that exact thing. The Dunmer live in squalor- thefts and assault can go days without even seeing guard attention. If a Nordic caravan is beset by bandits, the guards are out in a flurry, but make it a Khaajit caravan, or really any other race, and you'll find Ulfric couldn't give a damn. He won't even let any of the beast races into his city, save the main character.

This is covered in dialogue throughout windhelm, barring the Stormcloak supporters, and even some of them have are having second thoughts about the way he runs things.

Bah, the Dunmer have it good considering they came as penniless refugees and most nations in Tamriel would have exploited a situation like Vvardenfell for gain of territory or power. And if people can't bother to talk to more than one or two people in Windhelm, it's no wonder you get a limited view. I'm sick of explaining the game story to biased people.

Also, the Dunmer are Daedric worshippers. So, lucky they aren't isolated to the Daedric shrines.

Both sides are of grey, and both overall can aid man's survival potentially. Therefore, both are acceptable choices. It is apathy that spells doom for man.

The first time I decided to try out the Civil War I was a Stormcloak. My Nord's rationale was that the Imperials tried to kill him, and any government that was going to murder an innocent man without a trial must be vanquished. Revenge is a great motivator. Unfortunately, Skyrim doesn't really give you a chance to follow the path of rebel to great satisfaction. You still wind up doing quests and receiving rewards from key figures on the otherside. When I finished the war, I felt like a real jerk. And Ulfric seemed like an even bigger jerk. I quit playing after that quest and never went back to that character.

Impossible.

Saying "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" can be interpreted as many things. It can always be interpreted as Nord supremacy but it could also be interpreted, and more likely, to be the fact that Skyrim should only belong to those who are truly a part of Skyrim (basically all Humans) rather than an Empire which is being controlled by the Thalmor.

As for "taking advantage of a bad situation", well remember that the Empire was declining since the Oblivion Crisis. That's not taking advantage of a bad situation, it's trying to relieve that situation. It doesn't matter what comes after. We don't know if the Stormcloak rule will be better but one thing's for certain:

It's better than being a Thalmor puppet state.

Dunmer? Well remember that Ulfric never intended for the place he gave the Dunmer to be a slum. That was because of Nord intolerance and how can you blame them? To Men, all Elves are the same. Even before the Thalmor, lots of Humans didn't exactly like Elves and how can you blame them?

Dunmer think they're so high and mighty with their houses. They don't know when to swallow their pride and actually accept living somewhere. Altmer are even more prideful, thinking their culture is the best. Not to mention that the Thalmor originated from the Altmer. Wood Elves are probably the only Elves that people ever tolerate.
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Now I do disagree with many things Ulfric stands for, such as putting the Silver Bloods in charge of everything in Markarth. Killed the brother, that's what I did.

As for my character's perspective, I'm a Dragonborn. A true Dragonborn. Ulfric can HAVE Skyrim, I'll remake the Empire.