Clearly he's roleplaying wrong. He was supposed to roleplay a two-handed user, roleplay better next time

no problem here, on master's difficulty. Sure dying here and there but there is no fun in killing the enemy if they are easy

You're so ignorant its ridiculous. The early tier blocking perks such as effectiviness, power bash, and the one that slows time during an enemy power attack are pretty crucial for even 2h warriors because if they don't bash or block they die, and much more easily than some pure destruction mage.

just become a warrior and faceroll through 10 men mobs in dungeons.

I'm a warrior and never once blocked with my 2h weapon in my life and have no perks in block. Yet I facerolled through the main questline in 30 hours. Also











There are just TOO MANY points I can make that say mages overall are underpowered compared to warriors that I can write a book on it. Here are just a few

1. Destruction never gets stronger.

2. Mage spells are either too weak or cost too much mana to sustain in a fight.

3. Mage runs out of mana, has to run. Warrior runs out of stamina, continues to pound heavy damage.

4. Mages do less damage than warriors AND are 10-100x less durable in battle.

5. Master level destruction spells take 5 seconds to cast, cost too much mana, and don't get stronger after you get them at level 50 while monsters get stronger.

6. Warrior late game can have insanely strong legendary armor and weapons that do 500 damage per regular swing without power swing and tank like a god, mages have the 100 damage master spell that takes 5 seconds to cast when they are vulnerable.

7. Warriors can faceroll through the game with 2 skills and two hack buttons. Mages need to constantly switch spells, run around, drink potions, use shouts, use lydia, ect just to get by.

8. Robes with magic regen/cost reduction is nowhere near as good as the armor that makes warriors unstoppable late game.

9. Warriors with heavy armor and weapons can whip out their flame spell anytime and do as much damage as a mage while able to tank so much more, mages who want to fight with swords end up getting [censored].

10. I have yet to find a pure mage at any level able to complete the main quest line, I see warriors level 20ish complete it easily.

11. A TON of people complain about destruction being underpowered and mages in general compared to warriors. No one complains about warriors be underpowered, only overpowered.

12. This is a TES game. Players should be able to play how they want. If they want to focus on destruction without much help in other magic fields they should be able to do that. Game favors warriors heavily to faceroll through the game.

13. In even decently balanced games, warriors can always tank more damage while mages do much more damage and can nuke from afar. Mage destruction spells are mid-close range spells and can't nuke while warriors do more damage. In league of legends we see spell casters like ryze who die instantly and move slowly but can nuke so well and does more damage than tanks like malphite who are very hard to kill but barely do any damage. Imagine if malphite did more nuke damage than ryze. Who in their right mind would want to play ryze then? Everyone would want to play malphite. Same thing is going on here. People play the more balanced characters and like to play by what is better. This is an elder scrolls game and people should be able to play how they like but instead are forced to be melee or struggle through as a mage.

Pure truth.

Every reply you see to how to play a mage is basically "do this, this this this and this, and wear this this this and this, and make sure you do this this this and this.. then being a mage is as good as being a fighter who only has to do barely anything" generlaly spekaing you'd expect that you'd get more bang for your buck (so to speak) with a mage, but thats not the case.. you need to work three times as hard to be up to par with a comparable fighter class. It's like magic is the last resort of noodle-armed pansies who aren't manly and bearded enough to faceroll through dungeons with dual axes.

When it comes to combat, dps is pretty important. In fact, there is really no other metric to gauge the usefulness of a combat skill.


No one is expecting to get by on destruction alone. The complaint is that you can't get by on destruction period, with other skills or not. At higher levels, you will always move to other skills. Period. Destruction becomes pretty much useless and eventually will get replaced with other skills...or you will die.



No, it is really not. There is an expectation that destruction maintains its viability throughout the game, considering the investment you have to put into it.
There is no investment in the Khajit claws. They are what they are.

The point people seem to be missing is that NO ONE is asking for destruction to be so powerful that no other skill is needed. NO ONE is asking to finish the game with that skill, and that skill only. They are simply requesting that it scale at the same rate as other combat skills.

That is it. That is the only argument being made.

You're not using 2 skills as a 2h warrior and faceroling [censored] on any difficulty other than the easiest. Hell i doubt very seriously you've ever even taken a warrior past level five legitimately.

Will you please stop spamming this post in every single thread?

Why? He is trying to get his point across in each thread, and it is on topic on every one. You really expect him to paraphrase the entire thing for each destruction/magic thread (of which there are many)?

Cut and paste works fine.

He's just trying to get it through their heads. Education is good for all

Why are you relying solely on one tree? A warrior doesn't just skill up only 2 handed and nothing else. You need to get all the magic schools and utilize spells from all of them, plus maybe extra skills elsewhere. A thief can't get by JUST using sneak and pickpocketing either. He has to dip into combat for Archery, 1H perks, etc.

You have to take some other skills. Jeez. This is not a hard concept. "Pure Mage" doesn't mean "I only learn Destruction spells and when I can't faceroll the game with only 1 skill tree I complain on the forums"

Yea I have my mana regen at 150% and it still takes very long to regenerate. I'm not sure if its goes past %100, but it gets drained very fast. Conjuration and mixing destruction is weak. The summoning familars takes too much mana, and then trying to use duel flames isn't very effective. My summoning disappears fast, and Im stuck dancing around trying to avoid hits while waiting for my mana to recover

I agree, there's enough ignorant posters as it is. A standardized text will allow quicker access to proven information. How many topics has this been that simply loop to the same conclusions? Often numerous times in each topic as people don't read the bulk of the thread to see each and every suggestion put forward has been rebuked with hard math and basic logic.

Edit
MANA REGENERATION BONUSES DON'T EFFECT YOU IN COMBAT! FOR THE LAST TIME! It's only the out of combat regen.

ONLY APPLIES TO OUT OF COMBAT!!!! OUT OF COMBAT!!!!

How often do I have to repeat this. The regen bonus is only outside of combat. Even if we can get infinite spells it doesn't stop them from all being wimpy as [censored]. Oh noes guis I can cast 50 fireballs to kill a dragon. Then the rogue sneaks in and backstabs for x30 damage instant killing it. The warrior lolz at it with his super sword which does 400 damage a swing and his armour which makes him immune to pretty much everything.

Mages work all game and for what? To be [censored]tier than the other play styles? If magic was this crap in the world of the elder scrolls why spend decades doing it when any stupid idiot can raid a dungeon and start the chain to get new gear making him god like. WHY!!!? It makes no sense. Even if you diversify into other spells your still not as good as the other classes. Is that what people want? To spend all game to be almost as good as or worse then the other play styles? I'll save everyone the trouble now by telling them to pick up some daggers and the sneak perks or go enchanting for uber warrior.

Warrior: Can beat the game with one weapon of his choice and an armour of his choice. Enchanting is optional for th elulz because it makes it so easy.
Theif: Can beat the game with daggers and sneak.
Mage: Has to use every [censored] skill in existence. Damage isn't high enough. Need to have a distraction. Summon things to fight for me. Oh noes I focused too much in destruction and conjuration. Now I need to pick up healing and potions. My magic is now stretched thin. TROLLL magic regen bonuses only apply out of combat. Now I'm in some serious [censored] here. I need to add some sneak attacks in there to survive, but magic can't do that. So I need to go with a bow. But now I'm squishier so I need alteration for the buffs. There by usiong all of these skills and dragon shouts I can sort of crawl my way through the game at a snails pace. It only took me presumably decades to learn how to first use magic since it's so complicated.

*Theif and Warrior snicker in a corner.* as they go around one hit killing things or being invincible avatars of destruction. *mage cries himself to sleep believing he's balanced*

Best Destruction Spell: 100 points of damage. Half your mana bar and 5 second cast time. At higher levels it can kill nothing and takes up most of your mana to cast once.
Best Sword: 400 Damage deadric sword of death. He doesn't have to stop swinging ever.
Rogue: Two handed daggers x15 damage with the unique item that lets him get x2 to sneak attack for a x30 bonus and one hit kill dragons.

Just to put it into perspective a little bit.

I think what you meant to say was that you can't rely on a single branch of the magic skill tree to hold all of the burden without snapping.

its balanced pretty well, i play a pure mage, i just lower the difficulty and i'm jammin, magic is cool, you don't want it to overpowered, i've done some tough stuff you just have to use some strategy.

Even with 100% mana reduction for destruction, and using master level spells, it's still bad. At level 52 (master difficulty) my 2 one-handed daedric swords (one handed skill is 45, only 3 perks in armsman) do FAR more damage than my level 100 destruction master spells (dual casting, augmented flames x2).

Even when the spells cost 0 to cast, they're still not worth it.

/thread

Your strategy being lower the difficult to Novice ?

youre kidding right? where and how do u see that there is no trade off?

im lvl 30ish on my dualwield battle mage, and i use the basic firebolts/ice spikes for ranged damage and when they get close i use my double daedric swords (BS improved) and finish them off. id have to say that i dont have any damage increase to my spells exept dualcasting, however combining it with impact i can totally freeze 1-2 opponents down flat no problem, when i run low on mana i pull the swords out.

dont forget that the perks "augment element" adds 50% more damage to each spell, that meas your basic firebolt goes from doing 25 damage to roughly 37 damage, combined with dualcasting you will do above 74 damage and if you have impact you will stagger most enemies. use potions or your highborn power if ure running low, and put down frost runes before the fight so that u can use it as a defensive damage AND slow spell.

the mage in skyrim is made alot more tactical than most games requires from a mage, therefor youll have to start thinking ahead of the enemy.

dont forget that dualcasting and "multicasting" are 2 different things, u can still fire off fireballs while healing or warding.

anyway good luck

Says the level 10 mage playing on apprentice...

1- Lie, it does get stronger the higher your skill

2- I agree some spells do cost too much mana at the start, but that's only to be expected and enchants while not missing your targets can do miracles...

3- Mage takes no damage while running, warrior still get's pounded on

4- Mages are not supposed to be durable, and the damage difference is not that high.

5- Weapon dmg doesnt get stronger once u maxed it, so your point being ?

6- Cheat..call it w/e u want but it's just lame and its a way for ppl to justify them cheating since 'its possible ingame' exploit.

7- Warriors also need to drink potions, and use spells.

8- Again same thing like nr 6..

9- Lie, a warrior flame spell does not do the same dmg as a mage flame spell (perks, skill lvl...)

10- Doesnt mean that they dont "exists" for various obvious reasons

11- Not really, vocal minority like usual...

12- Freedom you say ? So you want Bethesda to release a game each 20years ? Afterall.. im sure there's people who want to play with unarmed combat while wearing a loin cloth and screaming obscure things, or being able to play to finish the mq without ever killing anything or what about being a naked warrior using nothing but a dagger.
Many people wish different things, but not evryone feels entitled to have evrything they want.

13- That's your personal vieuw. (albeit incorrect from my pov)

That firebolt damage will never, ever change once you get the perks. How does that make sense?

But that is exaggeration.

You can't expect to play ANYWAY you like and be successful at it.

What if someone only want to play wearing heavy armor and a shield, how is he expected to complete the game? There always are SOME limitations, which also increase exponentially when you increase the difficulty level.

I understand that the destruction is somehow weak after level 40 and that is sad, but then again, when at level 40 you have 39 perks and more through quests, how about you make up for the lack by augmenting with something else.
Another thing is, what happens when you reach lvl 40 and the destruction is weaker and you put it on easy mode? Perhaps that makes if viable again, meaning the enemy has less health and you can do more damage.
It might feel odd playing on easy mode, but then again you do restrict yourself enough that it simply is TOO hard on higher settings.

PC gamers can at least rest easy knowing that since it is such a "problem" that there will be tons of mods letting spells scale or make much more damage or reduce magicka cost etc etc.
svcks for the console gamers then, but Bethesda loves consoles so I'm sure they'll patch it for ya.

Ummm... What? My two-handed warrior's doing more than well enough despite not investing a single perk into Armor or Block.
(My character wears nothing, because I'm a nvde Crusader!)

Destruction's lack of damage-scaling was a serious gimp to the school, considering that the lower-level spells should be the "staples" due to the unique tactical role each spell fills. Having an otherwise-fun (Flames, Fireball, Firebolt, Fire Trap) spell be completely useless because its damage isn't competitive is bad design.

I hope they add a patch so that the destruction skill affects both Damage and Magicka cost.

There is no "max" on Weapon Damage. Even once you have all Damage-increasing perks and have 100 in the weapon's skill, enchantments, potions, and scrolls allow you to increase the damage beyond that. (And I'm not even talking broken self-made enchantments or potions).

You're the one who's completely wrong here, but keep believing that you're right.
Spells gain 0 damage from a higher level destruction level (beyond perks (and there's only 2 ranks per element))