Bethesda have already said that they drew inspiration from Lord of the Rings for Whiterun (The concept Art, not necesserily the finished product). And they have drawn a lot of inspiration from Tolkien and Norse mythology. But since Tolkien also drew a lot of inspiration from Norse mythology, you could just say that Bethesda drew a lot of inspiration from Norse Mythology. So, both Skyrim and Tolkiens work draws inspiration from similar sources.

I think it is great that Bethesda looks to Tolkien for inspiration. His work is really amazing. And so is the mytholog(-y/-ies) that much of his work is based on as well.

Where did they say that? Got a link? I tried googling for a quote and found nothing.

Think it was in one of the podcasts or videos back in October/September, but I am not entirely sure of where/when it was. (My memory is good, but not THAT good)

I agree whiterun seems like a spitting image, but thats as far as i can take it...

Side note.... didn't Tolkien actually coin the toerm Orc?

I don't think so, I think it comes from beowulf

I was thinking more along the word birka (originally "birk") which translates into "fortress"

- No, the falmer are blind and they don't have trolls etc. Just because they live in underground caves and want to kill you does not mean that they are VERY similar.
- Hmmm, ok Whiterun and Edoras look rather similar, however the design of the buildings are based on norse buildings.
- Come on, they're just mountains, you can notice the sky in bor Skyrim and LotR as well.
- The wood elves are rather different, both in lore and appearance.
- And the dwarven stuff hardly looks alike IMO.

Did they rip off some LOTR? Yes

Did they rip off some WoT? Yes

Did they rip off some ? Yes

Is it OK with me? Yes.

Look, the writers behind TES are not JRR Tolkein, Robert Jordan, Isaac Aasimov, Brian Anderson or .


Sorry, but they aren't. If they were they would be out making tons of cash as independent authors. They lean heavily on established lore and incorporate lots of different stuff from the fantasy universes created by other authors. Often they even give a nod to these authors in the form of easter eggs.

I think if you compared side by side pics you would think differently.

No deffinately not Beowulf. Online says it came from Tolkien although he used the word from Old English.

Actually no it does come from Beowulf, something like ork, and it meant hell-devil? I forget. Tolkien was a mythology professor and openly talked about him being heavily influenced by real world mythology when writing the book. My mom was a huge Tolkien buff and I always find it funny when people claim that he made up elves and orcs, even though they existed in mythology, a subject he taught, long before he was even born....

not based on but definitely inspired by lotr...not a bad thing imo

No he did not coin the term. He borrowed that term from old sources, like the Icelandic Eddas, along with names like Gandalf and Frodo. Here is a link describing the ancient Icelandic origin of the name Gandalf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf_(Norse_mythology)

The term "orc" was an Old English word for demon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc

If you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I said "Tolkien didn't invent dragons or elves". Tolkien started the fantasy fiction explosion. Books where dragons and elves were talked about in mythology and folk tales existed. There were no fantasy novels about dragons and elves, and magic...there were epics (the Iliad, the Odyssey, Gilgamesh) Plays (A Midsummers Night's Dream), countless folk-tales (Including King Arthur).

But fantasy novels were not commonplace until Tolkien. He started the genre. If you went to a book store looking for fantasy before Tolkien, you'd find the scholarly items I mentioned. Stuff about history and mythology and epic poems. After Tolkien there is an entire section in EVERY book store dedicated to fantasy. He started it. And all the movies.

Like I said, he didn't invent dragons or elves...he made them pop culture. Instead of folk tales and myths. Like Columbus didn't discover the New World, Leif Ericson did. But Columbus made the New World kmportant.

He very much did not invent the fantasy novel genre. He popularized it - a huge, huge difference.

For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_of_Elfland%27s_Daughter predates The Hobbit by over ten years. Actually, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_MacDonald is considered to be the pioneer of modern fantasy literature, and he greatly influenced Tolkien and C.S. Lewis.

Just like how Michael Jackson did not invent pop music - he just carried a huge influence within later generations. But by no means was he the first to write pop songs.

Seems more like Arnies Conan from 1982 to me.

I'd say pretty much anything fantasy these days take a fair amount of inspiration from lotr. The goal I believe for developers of this kind of content is to basically create an amalgam of all the awesome bits that everyone loves and leave out the crap, doesn't always work but mostly it does.
One of the most iconic sights from the lotr movies was edoras and so it makes sense to have one of the first things you see be something similar to really capture your attention and imagination.

On a side note I've just caught a game of thrones for the first time and it's basically skyrim come to life, totally recommend it, lots of political BS which won't be to everyones taste and I think that of fire and ice was a direct inspiration, though i may be thinking of wheel of time, though could be both.

Don't forget L. Frank Baum's "Oz" books. They were before Tolkien too. Robert E. Howard wrote Conan stories around the same time Tolkien started jotting down notes that lead to LoTR. Edmund Spencer wrote "The Faerie Queen" sometime before the renaissance.

I NEVER SAID Tolkien wrote it first In fact I specifically said twice that Tolkien DIDN'T invent it.

As simply as I can state it. Mathematically. Modern fantasy fiction = 6. Tolkien = 5. Many are saying that 5 is not as important as 1, because without 1 there would be no 5. this is true. But I'm saying for 6, 5 is 4 times more important than 1

Fantasy concepts that came before Tolkien influenced Tolkien. Then Tolkien influenced us. He is the most profoundly important author of "fantasy fiction". So most directly, all fantasy in modern times is because of Tolkien.

Most Conan stories were published in Weird Tales magazine, I think. Some magazine, can't remember exactly, and didn't get published as a novel until after LoTR was written. It was because of the rising popularity of fantasy (caused by Tolkien) they were published as novels. And taken up by L. Spague DeCamp.

The Oz books and the Narnia books were read by many. But those stories ARE NOT the reason why there is a fantasy section in every bookstore. Tolkien is. Understand what I'm saying. He is most directly related influence to the modern concept of fantasy fiction.

And for the person who quipped "you don't read much do you", I read a great deal, and have read a great deal of novels. A great deal. What I'm saying can be backed up by people with a PH.D in English Literature. Ask your Lit 101 professor. Professors themselves, don't seem very interested in Tolkien or heroic fantasy, but they acknowledge the breadth and depth of Tolkien's influence.

First, learn how to read the whole post.
The OP says some of the characteristics of Skyrim COULD be based on Lotr films and books, and I agree with him on some aspects, like the elven armour, which is almost identical.

The storyline is nothing like LOTR. Nor are the races.

TES is more in competition with Warhammer.

Um. You said:
That is what I'm arguing against. Saying there were none before him is equivalent to saying he was the first to write them. Which is wrong.

And yes. He was by far the most popular fantasy writer of the century. However, the bookstore did have fantasy sections before him. All things fantasy were in the fairy tales section. With the evolution of the English language (and yes, the popularization of Tolkien, no doubt), 'fairy tales' came to mean 'children's stories,' and the genre was split up.

It should also be noted that Lord of the Rings didn't catch on in America until the sixties, and bookstores had fantasy sections long before that.

In my first post I didn't say Tolkien was first. I said everything comes from Tolkien. I should phrased that differently.

You make a very good point about fairy tales, Grim and Mother Goose. That's fantasy, and that didn't occur to me.

If book stores had a fantasy section, however, it was for children, it wasn't the advlt oriented fantasy section you see today. Yeah, LOTR got popular in late '52, s and took off in the 60's. I do not believe there were "fantasy" sections that weren't dedicated to children (and so called), however. For one thing, most of the material wasn't even written yet.

I was born in 1967, so I didn't visit any bookstores until the late 70's, so I guess I could be wrong. But I know allot about the genre and writers and novels, and material that was published a novel before 1960. I can think of very few. I don't remember being enough of it to fill a section (of novels) devoted to heroic fantasy. Especially if you separate it from science fiction. And even including science fiction, the vast majority of stories saw publication, not as novels, but as stories in magazines. Those were in the magazine section, and not a specific fantasy section of novels.

I believe that the 20 foot long (or larger), 3 bookshelf high (or more) of only fantasy novels...novels not magazines...I do not believe that phenomena occurred until AFTER LoTR gained popularity, and had been popular for at least 10 years. Mid-70's.

Now, I'm belaboring this point about "novel sections" because that signifies the explosion of the fantasy genre...the novels, not the magazines. The novels caused the games (D&D), which caused the movies, which caused the computer games. And Tolkien was the spark that lit that fire. And no matter how much gas you pour out, how much wood it's poured on, the fire want start without the spark. That makes the spark the most important part.

I never said there was no fantasy before Tolkien, because I know better than that. I've mentioned several works that came before Tolkien already, and including science fiction, there is also Frankenstein, Dracula, Varney the Vampire, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Around the World in 80 Days (I count it...wasn't really possible in the late 1800's, even with derigibles). Le Morte D'Arthur, The Once and Future King (1958).

Chronicles of Narnia (last published in 1954, though that would likely appear in the aforementioned "children's" section). L. Frank Baum's Oz series, around 20 books published between 1907 and 1924, also probably in a children's section.

About 20 Robert A. Heinlein novels, ending with Starship Troopers in 1959. (Stranger in a Strange Land came out in 1962, and about 20 more after that).

Frank Herbert's first novel came out in 1957, while fiction, it was neither fantasy nor science fiction, so that doesn't count.

That's all the fantasy and science fiction novels I can think of, that were published as novels before 1960. Wouldn't fill a library, or a large section of a library. In fact, altogether, they wouldn't fill up a bookshelf in my bedroom, that covers 1/4 of a 20ft long wall. IF somehow I could have all of those, and IF a commercial bookstore before 1960 carried all of those at once.

I'm sure there are a few I've forgotten. But my point remains, there just wasn't ENOUGH fantasy and science fiction books written before LoTR became popular, or around the same time. Tolkien was by far, the most important author of the "fantasy" genre. After Tolkien we have, movies, games, computer games...and, god, more novels that can be counted. 100,000? Certainly 10's of thousands.