you are right, I was just trying come up with something that evoked a feeling of sameness perhaps I should say it's like reading the same book over and over again

I'd say it's more like watching a film over and over. But you get to do the fight scenes.

I don't think the world in Skyrim is linear, however the scripted events are ridiculous. Most scripted events only require you to 'enter place x' or 'get close to NPC y'. It feels like quests are thrown into your face (and often times they are), and I don't like that. I don't have a problem with scripted events at all, I just want at least some of them to have special requirements that must be met before they are activated. Instead of having Brynjolf approach me directly in Riften, I would prefer that he only approaches me if I have: stolen 250 gold and gotten arrested for theft at least once. That's just an example, but that way, only a thief-type character is likely to get that scripted event.

In Skyrim, it feels like one playthrough is all I need to do all there is to do. I feel like additional playthroughs add absolutely nothing. No secretive guilds, hidden items, hidden weapons, secretive quest lines... Every character I play gets the same options as the last one. No consequences and poorly-scripted events are what makes this game feel the same no matter how I play it.

YA but u wuldn't b leeder of Caesar's Legiun cuz Legiun iz evol n da bad guy!11!!! So see Bethesda makes u choose to go against some1 instead of leading dem!!


It's definitely downright weird that you could literally walk up to Brynjolf naked after saving the world from Alduin and he would say "I bet you haven't earned any of that coin honestly and yet you're so rich." A trigger like you suggested would be logical and wise.
The triggers in Skyrim in general are very odd. For example, the Thalmor hit squad that comes after your character claiming him to be "a great threat to the Thalmor Dominion," is apparently not triggered by a quest nor an action against the Thalmor, but by....being at least level 8?
The DB assassin that comes for you is similar. He might attack you before you've even done a thing.

So true.

But I don't buy the line about mountains and valleys making the world linear. True, the factions shrank, but Oblivion rarely had branching quests either. I think they are actually more in Skyrim, although the upshot is the downright insulting text that says "Give the Amulet to Bob OR Tell the Guards About it"

That's a worthless anology and you know it. You don't need any sort of training to get or use the Gauldar Amulet. The only reason you need to join the College is to walk. through. a. door. A creaky, thousand year old door with a little lock on it. And there's nothing in the quest that suggests only mages should do it. This is like getting halfway through a training program for the F-18 and suddenly they tell you that you're eyesight isn't good enough. Why do we only know this now?!? There's also absolutely nothing that informs you how to get into Saarthal. The game literally sends you running for a walkthrough. Horrendous design.

The world of Skyrim is not linear. Even allowing for the terrain, I can't think of any occasions when you are forced to go from A to B to C in a strict order. What it is, really, is overly repetitive and scripted. This is not quite the same thing as being linear but I can see how it creates an impression that the game is linear even when it's actually open world and freeform.

When you witness certain events taking place every single time you step into a certain city, regardless of whether it's day or night. When you literally see groups of people standing around waiting for you to get close enough to hit their trigger box and start a little scripted scene going. When you hear the same old dialogue between NPCs over and over again without even the token attempt at randomization which Oblivion's dialogue had. These things create a feeling that the game is on rails.

There's exactly one way to join the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim, while in Oblivion you could get in by murdering any one of countless NPCs and have your own roleplay reason why your character did so. Likewise the Thieves Guild: in Oblivion maybe you got the note in jail or maybe you stumbled across the secret meeting, but in Skyrim it's the same every time you play. Mages Guild? In the last game you could do the recommendation quests in any order you wanted, roleplaying as you went along. This time around you just go to the same place and go through the same dialogue, and immediately get thrust into a very linear and railroaded sequence of quests which play out the same way every time you do it.

When you add in the fact that you're constantly pushed towards various side and faction quests, and even forced to do some of them when they link into the main quest in unnecessary ways, It feels like the game was written with the intention of creating the best possible single playthrough experience without any regard to replayability. Either that or the writers don't think that replayability comes from doing slightly different things each time, but rather just doing the same things over again with a different character build.

Linear isn't necessarily bad in an RPG. There are games I have played that needed more linearity and streamlining, just because quests and such were mixed up so much. Too open is also relatively bad.

That said, Skyrim was too much on the linear side, I agree. The scripted scenes, I think, actually add to the game (and I wish there were more random things that happen, just to add to the atmosphere to the worlds and give some weight to in-game events. Part of the whole consequences thing.) However, the quests themselves are overly linear and the fact that they do try to push you into quests is kind of pathetic (for example, the Thieves' Guild could have been showed to have some influence in Riften, without Bethesda giving you a quest to "G0 J01N TEH TH13V35 GU1LD!!!!!!") The dungeons are too linear as well, which is moot. Really boring (though at least not copy-and-paste like Oblivion; an improvement, definitely.); could be improved. The landscape could have been a bit varied and bigger, too; that too I agree with.

That one has always confused me and it's yet another symptom of Bethesda's "doesn't make any sense? So what IT'S CONTENT!" attitude. I've had them try to assassinate my character when all they've really done is retrieve the golden claw. That's one ungrateful shopkeeper. And then of course you're going to join them and the DB apparently forget all about trying to kill you - some service they provide. As does your character it seems.

Please Bethesda - hire some writers for God's sake.

You mentioned one thing in Skyrim that drives me nuts: NPCs don't recognize what you have done. It especially bugs me within the guilds. I can get my character to the top, but I'm still treated like a rookie. Even Oblivion had NPCs recognize your achievements. I will never understand why it's not done that way in Skyrim.


I get annoyed with seeing the same scenes and hearing the same dialogue on every playthrough. Whiterun has the smith talking about producing weapons. Solitude has the execution. Windhelm has the Nord discriminating against the Dark Elf. Riften has a guard and a man inside that try to intimidate you. Markarth has the murder... All of these events are triggered by "enter city and get close enough to those NPCs." I think most, if not all scripted events should require more than that, especially involving the guilds. I enjoy having to do a little "detective work" to figure out how to join certain guilds, but in Skyrim they're thrown right into your face. And with regards to the dialogue, whatever happened to NPCs simply saying "Hello" and "How are you?"?? Every NPC says the same nonsense every time I walk by...

It's like the devs wanted to say "Look! See how much more realistic our NPC dialogue is now compared to the inane mudcrab conversations in Oblivion!" and yes it does sound better, the first time around. It's when you pass by on your next visit to the city and hear the same scripted one-liners, and when you roll up a second character and see the exact same scripted scenes in the exact same places, that the awful Groundhog Day vibe starts to set in. To be honest I'd have rather they built upon and expanded the pseudo-random dialogue from Oblivion, added more branches and made it more responsive to world events, rather than throw it out completely and make replace it with a system so tightly scripted it hurts.

Yeah that's a great way of explaining the magic of Morrowind and Oblivion. In those games you, the player, know that those things exist, but your character doesn't. Your character is a small part of a bigger world and it's that amazing feeling of knowing that you're only scratching the surface of what's out there that keeps me coming back to those games and making new characters. In Skyrim you will get a journal prompt for pretty much every guild and major quest in the game after playing for like 2 hours, and this will happen with every character. Your character isn't really a small part of a big world in Skyrim, your character basically is the world.

It's pretty amazing that they included werewolves as monsters in certain Silver Hand dungeons, but only allow you to actually become one by playing the Companions quest line. Shouldn't you be able to contract it from the werewolves you fight? And they also basically made it a super power that you can activate on command, it's not even really a curse.

This is the big problem with Morrowind. It undeniably has more quests than Oblivion or Skyrim but they do tend to be relatively dull and repetitive. In Morrowind it's more the unmarked quests and adventures that really make the game magic. And again, this is why I think Oblivion had the perfect balance, because the marked quests were far more varied and interesting (the guilds especially) and it still had enough unmarked quests and secrets to give the world that same magic that Morrowind had.

Haha, yeah that's probably the best way to put it. I've made like a dozen characters in Skyrim but it almost feels like I've just been playing one character the whole time.

I didn't read every single post, but I'll put my two cents in here.

I felt that, the Skyrim world was alive. It is incredibly nice to walk through and to experience random encounters like the Headless Horseman or the Dark Brotherhood Assassin attempt to kill you.

Howeverl, I felt that a lot of the guild quests were interesting but lacked that specialty around them. Being the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, Harbinger of the Companions, Arch-Mage of the College, and the Guildmaster of the Thieves Guild breaks the flow of immersion for me.

The should have had the guilds intersect with one another and make you choose which one to join at a particular questline. If you joined both the Companions and the Dark Brotherhood, they should have over lapping quests that ensure you're loyalty to one faction while making you an enemy to the other. For example, if you join the Dark Brotherhood, there may be a quest to assissinate Kodlak or Aela, but you're at a cross roads becausse you're a memeber of the Companions yourself. Likewise, perhaps you just joined the Dark Brotherhood after being with the Companions for a while, and then Kodlak says that there's a special job that requires to exterminate the Dark Brotherhood in their Sancturary.

I think they did that with Morrowind, but I haven't played the game in a while so my memory's a bit rusty. But in my opinion they should take some of the faction ideas from New Vegas (which I felt was pretty good. Joined The Brotherhood of Steel but Mr. House wants you to exterminate them) and Morrowind. (I think you could only join either House Telvanni or the Mages Guild, but I never went to either so I can't say for certain) and implement them in Skyrim.

They could still do that with cheap quest DLCs (or if they want their fanbase to love them forever, FREE quest DLCs).

I don't feel the game world is linear in general. Sure, there are areas that have more limited access, but I don't feel like it is taking away from my ability to go where I want.

The dungeons are more linear than earlier games, I agree, but I still find the dungeons in Skyrim to be more enjoyable than the ones in Morrowind and Oblivion.

god i miss the imperial city. Solitude is only 1/5 of the size. Whats going on man bethesda i expected the capital city of skyrim(after winterhold) to be at least near the size of the imperial city

I love the mountains! It is like Morrowind once again where you have to use your mountain climbing skills! So much fun, I say!

Life is linear

Life svcks

Where's my options?

NPCs in Skyrim have far more dialogue than their Oblivion counterparts. Skyrim's NPC dialogue is MORE than sufficient - I find it incredibly easy to roleplay in Oblivion, where NPCs usually only have one line, AND in Skyrim, where they have much more. Do you people honestly expect each NPC to give you a novella when you ask them?

This leads to my second point. I honestly don't understand how you people can complain about how 'shallow' and 'hard to roleplay in' Skyrim is. It's incredibly easy to roleplay, and Skyrim is far from shallow. My character kills a dragon in Riverwood. When he absorbs it's soul, the NPCs run over and look at me, awe-struck. It's fantastic! The same when you shout in a town. NPCs are amazed, and the guards often warn you.

Oblivion was much better for roleplaying, if only because NPCs had the sense to say just "Hi!" when I walked by, not spout out some line like "I work for Belethor at the general goods store." I can't immerse myself in a world where NPCs spout out their life stories ad nauseum when ever I walk past. I can't immerse myself in a world where the majority of NPCs (even major ones, like Jarl Balgruuf) don't react to something as major as the death of Ulfric Stormcloak. Everything you do has so little effect on the world that it's painful.

As someone with ADHD (thought not 12 years old), I take offense to that comment.

I'm just as annoyed about that as you are.

The guards are about the only people who react to anything and they're arguably the least important people in the game - they're just guards. Bethesda wasted loads of dialogue having guards make pointless comments because you've recently levelled a skill or telling you to go to some shop while, as someone else pointed out, they didn't bother to get a central character to comment on the death of Ulfric.

I've been playing since release and never once felt 'rail roaded' into a Quest. Oblivion had an epic quest that you were thrown into straight away, so I don't see how Skyrim is different. 6 months in and I've only just visited Morthal for the first time! I haven't been disappointed by the game so far.

The landscape, no I dont find linear.
The quests, events, and dialogue and npcs..then yes.

Also to really sum it up if the game is linear or not, then when was the last time at the beginning of a quest not radiant quest but reg quest, u was allowed to select no as in you did not want to do that. Not maybe later or anything like that but a no.

I think people need to replace the word linear with predictable / repetitive.

The game does not force you to complete particular quest lines, you can pick and choose what your character under takes. It's perfectly possible to reject the approach by the Thieves Guild, you can help or destroy the DB.

Having said that I do agree that once undertaken the quest lines are a little linear. Would have really enjoyed some alternative routes and endings which would have really enhanced the RP and re-playability. And the forced dialogue is frustrating, as someone else pointed out public executions are rarely taking place at 3am.

But I sympathies with Beth, this is a huge game, with hundreds of npcs. Trying to implement some of these changes could and probably would have cost a fortune, delayed release and bought with it a plethora of bugs.

Every game out there could be considered "linear" at the end...even the multiple choices lead to a "forced" end of a quest. There is no freedom at all really.

What Skyrim really lacks is depth and credible choices/consequences...all is "simplified" -from the dialogues to the dungeons/puzzle -even if the world is magistrally depicted.

Of course the game popularity probably would have been a lot worse if it was more complicated.

Its like having a beautiful painting -like those french/english landscapes -when what i really want is a Caravaggio; this is how i feel when i play Skyrim. But in Caravaggio rarely we have nature depicted and not all like its "realism/harshness"

I agree but bethesda cant nor can we state that the game wouldnt have done well it its had more depth and consequencea or hell less streamlined. Look at how well fonv did, the first mass effect, dragon age origins, deux ex all were considered commercial successes that spawned cult followings.

Im of the opionion that two things sold the game to people, the commercials and equally or more how well the past games were.
Their marketing did a great job reaching the masses and with the graphics, I believe if they spentore time on the journal, the length and actual substance of the quests and consequences while leaving in map markers and golden arrows how they have it now but with the option to turn them off, id dare say that they woulda pleased more people, even sold more copies, and people like myself would still be playing it today instead of putting it down already. Not saying everyones put it down but quite a hood bit of us have and that I see as a failure on nethesdas fault for setting a timeline and one of the rarest times actually meeting it without delaying it but at a huge cost. Even the ck shows up there was mode bulk to quests and quite a bit of the stuff that we are complaining about not being in the game and ATM I think the reason for being cut is due to the meeting of the timeline tney are so proud of meeting.