[Rel] Smart Souls

Post » Thu May 24, 2012 4:29 pm

Been busy - I should have the update out on (or before) Boxing Day.
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Rudi Carter
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:07 am

If the only way mages had to regenerate their Magicka was by consuming filled soul gems then this might be closer to a fair comparison. Generally in RPGs part of the balancing factor for this is in the usage: melee weapon users must by definition be in melee range to deal their damage and can typically strike only a single target at a time, whereas a magic user can work from range and can affect a large area simultaneously. You don't see for example D&D's Longsword+1 needing charges to maintain; not even if it's a Fiery Longsword + 1. Of course, magic is also (ahem) "somewhat" more powerful in D&D, the balancing act there is very different, but the point remains - regardless of resource costs, a melee user's damage is never "free", it comes with the "costs" associated with getting into and staying in melee range. Even if you are convinced that additionally, a charges system is right for balance in TES/Skyrim, I'd be very surprised to see anyone argue that the current soulgem system was anywhere close to ideal. The existing system is chock full of "busywork" chores - like the sort of inventory management that's necessary for efficient soul capture if you aren't using this mod, and I think that's really where complaints stem from. I don't believe that "player inconvenience" is the right path to go down for balancing, not as the exclusive method anyway. There's other elements of the game's design that interact with this too. In Skyrim, it is trivially possible for Destruction magic users to gear to make their destruction casts free. Melee weapon users will always need a steady diet of souls to keep their weapons charged. As I alluded to at the start, Magicka also regenerates passively over time, whereas charging an enchanted weapon is a manual, multistep process. A bigger problem (imho) is that non-magical weaponry can be improved via smithing to a point where it overshadows any damage possible by Destruction magic. The simple comparison falls apart when you start looking at the details. I'd love to be able to round this post out with my suggestion for improving the system but I'm not there yet. This mod is a great start though.

Well if you put it that way... let's remove magic too, since quaffing potions or waiting for the magic bar to replenish on its own is a chore. Let's also ditch health since minding your health bar is a chore. Oh yeah, stamina, since power attacking repeatedly is a pain when you have to stop and recuperate that too.

The price of having your weapon magically augmented to deal an extra magical effect upon striking a foe is that it can do it a finite number of times. If you want such empowered weapons, be ready to pay the maintenance price.

Feel lucky that even a moderately skilled enchant can enchant to have a reservoir of over 100 strikes. It requires far less minding than drinking restore magicka potions like mead in the middle of a fight. The "regenerating magicka" in the middle of a fight is so agonizingly slow that you need to be covered head to toe in magicka regen enchants to be effective without potions. Oh wait, you're already covered head to toe with Destruction cast cost reduction enchants. Guess that means just being a one trick Destruction pony then. Or maybe pack full of magicka potions, which replenish far less usable resources than a filled gem of comparable weight.

Likewise... ten filled common soul gems will last a fair long while. I have to mind my enchanted swords' charge levels far less than I do my magic bar.
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Nikki Hype
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:11 pm

Been busy - I should have the update out on (or before) Boxing Day.

What's Boxing day..?
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Svenja Hedrich
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:08 am

First weekday after Christmas.
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ijohnnny
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 1:11 pm

This:
I don't believe that "player inconvenience" is the right path to go down for balancing
was all that needed to be established. Annoying busywork is never an acceptable aspect of anything designed to entertain and amuse.

I am not complaining that the system makes the game too challenging; I'm saying it is stupid. Just make all the soul gems hold a uniform quantity of happy-time that can be increased with smaller souls up to the equivalent of 1 grand soul, then they must be spent and replaced with empty ones. No one ever uses anything less than a grand soul for enchanting anyway, unless they are spamming it to train up the skill. In that case: I don't care. Preserving the ability to spam skills is not a valid reason to keep a system that svcks and isn't fun.
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:22 am

Well if you put it that way...

I didn't suggest the wholesale removal of any game mechanic; implying that I did and then arguing against that position while ignoring any points I actually did make is just straw manning.

(I also used paragraphs. It seems a lesser spotted quotation-mangler has been at your post!)

It's certainly necessary to "inconvenience" the player to an extent; if there's no "inconvenience" at all, there's no game, it would just be an interactive movie. But using player inconvenience and micro-management elements exclusively as a means to balance something is just terrible design - in practice it means balancing things by deliberately making them less fun. That's completely insane if your intention is to entertain.

No other system requires so fine a degree of inventory management as managing souls and soul gems in the unmodded game, and this is exacerbated by the horrible UI. Charging a weapon mid-combat can totally destroy the flow of that combat - potions can at least be placed on the quick menu and hotkeyed, but you must use the main inventory to recharge a weapon. The details of managing gem and soul sizes (without this mod) mean that every time you loot a soul gem, you have to consider whether to keep it in your inventory based on your expected opposition and your advanced knowledge of their soul sizes.

This is a system that adds complexity without depth and player inconvenience without any feel of there being a challenge to overcome (unless your preferred roleplay is the Dovahkiin as a filing clerk, in which case good luck and have fun.) That also means that it's a ripe area for future mods of course :)

Back to watching this space!
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Holli Dillon
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 10:13 am

Well, if we're suggesting that the flow is to greatly interrupted, then future mods really are the way to think about it. As shadeMe has shown, much the mechanics of the game can be altered to be both useful and convenient.

In theory, one could create a mod that would let you tag a weapon for auto-recharging (saying for instance, if the weapon is favorited, or the most common reason, because you have it equipped) and that in the moment the weapon runs out of charges, the game auto refills the weapon using the lowest soul gem. This requires only that you keep a stock of soul gems on you, making sure to every once in a while use Soul Trap or a weapon with Soul Trap, and voila, the inconvenience is diminished greatly.

By using the lowest soul gem, you ensure that the valuable gems are wasted on recharging, but much like potions, it often only fills up it partially, which means it might auto recharge twice in a battle, and allows you, outside of battle, to recharge it on your own if you want it up to full.
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Baby K(:
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:29 am

I didn't suggest the wholesale removal of any game mechanic; implying that I did and then arguing against that position while ignoring any points I actually did make is just straw manning.

(I also used paragraphs. It seems a lesser spotted quotation-mangler has been at your post!)

It's certainly necessary to "inconvenience" the player to an extent; if there's no "inconvenience" at all, there's no game, it would just be an interactive movie. But using player inconvenience and micro-management elements exclusively as a means to balance something is just terrible design - in practice it means balancing things by deliberately making them less fun. That's completely insane if your intention is to entertain.

No other system requires so fine a degree of inventory management as managing souls and soul gems in the unmodded game, and this is exacerbated by the horrible UI. Charging a weapon mid-combat can totally destroy the flow of that combat - potions can at least be placed on the quick menu and hotkeyed, but you must use the main inventory to recharge a weapon. The details of managing gem and soul sizes (without this mod) mean that every time you loot a soul gem, you have to consider whether to keep it in your inventory based on your expected opposition and your advanced knowledge of their soul sizes.

This is a system that adds complexity without depth and player inconvenience without any feel of there being a challenge to overcome (unless your preferred roleplay is the Dovahkiin as a filing clerk, in which case good luck and have fun.) That also means that it's a ripe area for future mods of course :smile:

Back to watching this space!

Just how low an enchantment charge do your weapons have? Even at early game, the number of strikes available was close to 100 for self-enchants. As late in the game as I am, they're easily over 100 strikes. Soul Squeezer makes the gems refill even more. I don't think I've soul-trapped much at all for enchantment fuel, just the odd big guy so I have a grand to enchant with (or black.... :chaos: ). I don't think I've ever had a weapon go completely dry on me, only once with a stave (because it was a massive windfall paralysis stave that had like 8 shots of charge at my alteration skill level... but it was my "Instant Win Stick" when things got too dicey).
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katsomaya Sanchez
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 1:45 pm

Riiight... Update time! v3.0 released, OP updated.
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kirsty williams
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 1:25 pm

Thank you so much shadeMe.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:16 pm

Thank you! Makes for a happy Christmas indeed!
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Melanie
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 7:44 am

Hi all.

Shade: Any chance that you can put this in Nexus page so Norton let me DL it, plz?

TYVM in advance.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:47 pm

Thank you! This mod makes me use those soul trap weapons with impunity....
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:16 am

Thanks you! no more having to drop my grand gems filled with petty souls.
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Jeff Turner
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 11:56 am

Awesome mod, thanks :biggrin:



Hi all.

Shade: Any chance that you can put this in Nexus page so Norton let me DL it, plz?

TYVM in advance.

According to the virustotal scan of the file, Norton should let you download it. The only thing that comes up is ByteHero claiming this to have a virus... but it's only one out of 43 scanners, and that AV gives that same FP to a lot of things :)

Link to results: http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=866d946594cf5aa240b4f1b4dd08cbe21f8d38863e5e621f763742c194cb4dc6-1325499139
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Hearts
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 12:43 pm

Great mod, and the msg about which soul was captured is the icing on the cake :biggrin:

Still no plans for a Nexus up-load? It's not like you haven't got an account :shrug:
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Ysabelle
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:24 pm

Not sure how i missed this one until now. Great addition to the game, thanks for the work.
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teeny
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Still no plans for a Nexus up-load? It's not like you haven't got an account :shrug:
[shadeMe-Time]Very soon[/shadeMe-Time]
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Emily Graham
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:32 am

Hi.

I downloaded this mod (which is great idea btw), but it seems to have had the side effect of disabling my Azura’s Star – it is as if the mod treats Azura’s Star as a large soul gem and won’t allow small souls to enter it.

Has anybody else had this problem and, if so, would it be something that could be fixed or worked around somehow?

It’s a shame if it can’t as it would mean that anyone who uses Azura Star probably won’t be able to use this mod and will have to go back to the needless ‘grind’ of dropping soul gems that get filled with small souls.
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Ashley Tamen
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:51 pm

Hi.

I downloaded this mod (which is great idea btw), but it seems to have had the side effect of disabling my Azura’s Star – it is as if the mod treats Azura’s Star as a large soul gem and won’t allow small souls to enter it.

Has anybody else had this problem and, if so, would it be something that could be fixed or worked around somehow?

It’s a shame if it can’t as it would mean that anyone who uses Azura Star probably won’t be able to use this mod and will have to go back to the needless ‘grind’ of dropping soul gems that get filled with small souls.
I think that's intentional but you make an excellent point. The typical use case for Azura's Star is to fill it with any old soul and use it for recharging items. You don't care if the size doesn't match because the gem is reuseable anyway.
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Samantha Mitchell
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:09 am

Has anybody else had this problem and, if so, would it be something that could be fixed or worked around somehow?
I'll make the Star an exception in the next version.
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Bones47
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:00 am

I'll make the Star an exception in the next version.
Can you make the value of the gems go up to the filled level when you trap them? Ah fancy mahself a prospector in the soul trade.
Nobody will get that reference.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:24 pm

Can you make the value of the gems go up to the filled level when you trap them? Ah fancy mahself a prospector in the soul trade.
Nobody will get that reference.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1328598-relz-acquisitive-soul-gems/

It doesn't work for gems which contain the wrong soul, but if you're using Smart Souls you probably don't care about that anyway.
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Tha King o Geekz
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 3:30 pm

Can you make the value of the gems go up to the filled level when you trap them? Ah fancy mahself a prospector in the soul trade. Nobody will get that reference.
Don't they already? I distinctly recall noting a difference in price b'ween filled and empty soul gems.
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yermom
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 2:40 pm

Don't they already? I distinctly recall noting a difference in price b'ween filled and empty soul gems.
You noticed grand or black gems doing this when filled with a grand or black soul. They work properly but the others do not.
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Nikki Morse
 
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