While I'm going to stop arguing now, it's worth noting that is a point that you simply can't argue against, and it stands right.
This whole censorship mess is stupid, in fact it is idiotic. You can't simply filter out a game to make 1 or a few countries happy, while the rest are disappointed. That sort of ideology is backwards.

I hope id learns from Rage's problems, but more so from Doom3:BFG's which seems to be an even worse scenario, by far.

Im not putting words into your mouth, Bouncy. I'm merely implying that after 20 years of DOOM, it would be hard pressed to expect it to be perfectley intact as far as IWAD's go to during all the different releases and compilations. Some still contain the original IWAD's, but usually its PC-related releases (DOOM collection, STEAM via DosBOX instlaller, id anthology, etc).

There were even legality issues for them to try Vanilla DOOM through STEAM... id was sued for using DosBOX in a retail sale for trying to keep it as Vanilla as possible. They ended up having to pay royalties to the owner. I think that was a honest effort to deliver completely untainted, unmodded, straight up classic DOOM. They contained IWADs direct from v1.9 DOOM completely unaltered. You can't say they havent honored your vanilla requests in recent times, and they certainly have tried and done so... its STILL for sale if you want it.

The DOOM 3 BFG edition, on the other hand, was just a celebration release for 20 years, one giant bundle, cross platform, with as many non-legal issues addressed as possible. They want a quick and easy way to play through DOOM 1 and 2 in a near complete, yet "lite" option for those who wanted to give it another glance before or after playing the main event which is Doom 3. The release was likely intended to just be a on-the-fly index of DOOM anthology itself, never meant to be modded or extracted to be played as part of source ports, etc.

Now, name me one other series compilation of 20 years that came out COMPLETELY unaltered that is perfectley intact or not edited in some way, shape or form. Just the publisher changes and developer changes over those 20 years could even cause legalities that could mean alterations of contents alone.

If I recall what I have seen on the original video depicting the censorship I posted in the "Thanks for (no) nazis" thread, the SS soldiers' sprites just have dummy zombieman sprites while all the Nazi and Hitler portraits are just copies of the wall texture over the portrait ones.

Hmm, do the PC versions have less sales because people love consoles

OR

The PC versions have less sales because the PC version svcks compared to the console versions?

There is something to think about.

Well it looks like the original philosophy at id totally went out the door. Get games to work on PC my foot. Remember how they wanted to get Mario working on a PC? Remember back in the day, each port of the game plays to the strengths of the system they are on? Not anymore. Back then I bought every version of id games that was ever released, starting with RTCW

I have Doom 3 on PC and xbox
Quake 4 on PC and 360
ETQW on all 3 systems it was released on
RTCW on all 3 systems it was released on
Wolfenstein for all 3 systems, although I feel like I shouldn't have done that.

Now I only have Rage and Doom 3 BFG edition for PS3 only. There is no point of buying the PC and 360 version. The 3 versions are totally the same anyway, and the reason why I bought all versions of the older games was the subtle differences in the menu structure, the feel and the flow of the game. Now, it's exactly the same thing. I also bought the PS3 version of BFG edition, because my PS3 hasn't run a doom and doom 2 with 4 player splitscreen multiplayer.

Every time id releases a doom product, I would buy every version regardless, provided that I don't have some sort of doom running on a certain system, but not anymore.

No, they're just zombiemen. You can tell by how easily they die and how they attack; SS guys would keep firing at a decent automatic rate; the zombiemen only shoot once then resume wandering a bit, and that's clearly what they're doing in that video.

Likewise, what they more likely did was just remove the nodes on the secret levels for the alternate textures, letting it be one long wall of the same texture.

There are no SS guys. That content is removed. Not replaced. Removed. Gone. Kapoosh. Which is the problem.
It's not the exes I'm concerned about. The old vanilla executable can rest in peace. It's the missing content that makes this version of doom 2 completely incompatible with most things the doom community has done that's the problem.

Especially the WolfenDoom TCs and any other Wolf 3d projects made for Doom..

I wish BFG edition had graphics options and modding support . I don't want to play the vanilla version because I would have to use xpadder for controller support and i do not know how to adjust it to compensate for anolog sticks and dead zones.

Use mouse + keyboard, it's far superior for shooters over a controller.

See the Steam forums. I already gave you the reply for that. And the reply to reply. svcks to me? I'm not the one attempting at damage control when their marketing turns out to be a load of crap. They should pay you for this stuff.

Okay, so someone who actually had access to the new doom2.wad informed me that all the content's still there, just edited and unused.
Crisis averted; it'd still work with various doom mod thingies, even if it'd be a bit different and quirky.

I still don't like the censorship and such, but now it's merely my preferences and I'm not going to bother complaining about those much.

Interesting, in what way was it edited?

The SS's sprites *have* been replaced with pistol zombies, but they didn't use the actual monsters in the maps for some reason. Their sounds haven't been replaced though, oddly enough.

As far as walls go, I don't know the full details, but I'm presuming they just overwrote all the ones with nazi imagery with the basic tiled versions. Lazy, but quick and gets the job done.

Overall, a bit messy, but it'll still work and that's the important part to me.

I was more interested in the titlepic, is that still there?

No, that isn't.

This whole Most of this re-release was just a bunch of quick, dirty, cheap edits then?

Edit: Okay well, what I mean is, the brightening of Doom3, and the censoring of what made the games good, and replacing resources with others there.

I just don't get it. They had the time to go through every level again and see what they didn't like and change things. Why couldn't they actually go in there and redo the lighting completely? With the entire levels already completed, just placing lights would be fast and easy.

That is true.

I'd say most of it was, some wasn't and would have required some extensive effort though. Such as the stereoscopic stuff

The edits is what a modder could have done.

Indeed. I mean, look at Serious Sam HD - the same case, as it was with DOOM 3 and BFG Edition - it was released eight years after the original game to reintroduce the new generation to Serious Sam. The only difference is that Serious Sam HD actually had some serious (lol) graphic overhaul and some level design tweaks in it. And Serious Sam is a semi-obscure indie shooter series from Eastern Europe (Croatia, to be exact), while DOOM is a powerhouse of a franchise. Not as big as it used to be, but nonetheless.

that makes sense, that'd be pretty messed up of id otherwise

Yeah. What bothers me perhaps the most... and this might sound odd, but what bothers me the most is that they didn't add widescreen support to the classics. At least to what people have said, you get these huge black bars on the side.

If this isn't true, please let me know. I'm going by what someone posted.

Sadly, it is, and it bothers me too. Why?

It just seems so chaotic the way they did things. So there are all the cheap edits everywhere, and they couldn't add widescreen. That really svcks for everyone with widescreen, who want to feel immersed, like me.

I'll stick to playing Doom on Gzdoom, with widescreen and huge resolutions. And aniso, and anti-aliasing, etc. etc.

I'll stick with ZDoom. Scaling options of GZDoom are too "soapy" for me.

It's funny how you lot always trot out that line, isn;t it? Wanna watch yourselves, you're showing a pattern.

What's wrong with consistency?