I'm not one to jump in on the flogging of dead horses, But as a fan of ID Software's games I feel I need to deliver this obituary for them.

They didn't die with the times with grace and honour like they should have, they sold themselves to their corporate overlords to be hip and get down to the level of game developers of the current generation. They wanted to taste what it was like to make a graphics oriented game instead of a gameplay oriented game like the days of yore. They did, and the last game they made, made their near god-like reputation go down just as fast is it rose with the first. With the re-release of Doom3 and the originals before it in this so called "Remastered" edition, they again wanted to put this new age mark on it just like George Lucas and Star Wars. They did, and they ruined the games of the franchise that made them so successful.

This can either mean 1 of 2 things, ID wants to end their suffering with suicide or their new Bethesda buddies have infected and poisoned them with their bug-ridden game development practises. I personally would hope its the former, but its most likely the latter in this case. ID is dead to me, John Carmack should focus on his rockets, and the rest can move on or continue to support their past games.

My advice to ID: This is not the 1990s anymore, the industry is broken and needs to crash again, get out while you can, stop making games and die with what dignity you have left.

<sup>Strange... I think some of id's recent games are just as great, if not better, than their early days. And I grew up playing Keen, Doom, Wolfenstein, Quake, etc.

Loved RAGE, and DOOM 3 BFG is a great re-release. Loving the 3D mode and too busy playing it right now to further criticize you

Different strokes for different folks!</sup>

I find that interesting given your apparent history with ID's past games, but as you say different strokes for different folks.

I wont go into detail with the issues of this rerelease. the threads on it already speak for themselves, especially http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1417534-r-lightscale-2-improved-lightning-my-a/. They should have left everything alone, They didn't need to add gimmicks and change things around to rerelease it, a classic is a classic and should stay that way.

I completely agree with you.

But STEAM has not stopped selling DOOM 3 vanilla, nor have the mods stopped. It's always there, always will be there for purchase. You can always choose not to puchase BFG edition and stick with Vanilla.

I'd say DOOM 3 BFG Edition is to cater to everyone... not just the absoulte DOOM 3 vanilla hardcoe enthusiast. Not everyone wants to mod, and some of us greatly enjoy some of the new features such as the new config menus, Lost missions (love them personally), some minor tweaks and updates, 3D options and the eventual Occular Rift VR options. I notice so little difference between DOOM 3 BFG and DOOM 3 vanilla, that outside of mods, I will likely never load DOOM 3 vanilla again. Maybe for LMS coop, but hey.. likely that will be updated for BFG edition with how popular the mod is, same with sikkmod, etc.

I think it's just a collection/anniversary release, was never meant to be a huge overhaul or remake, just some polishing and bundle with a few extras.

In all seriousness, its a great and huge improvement to the DOOM 3 console owners came to know.... the watered down, castrated Xbox release from 05. This is a huge deal, a complete overhaul and a great package that realy shows how well DOOM 3 has come along when comparing it to other games on 360 or PS3... it still holds up well and the graphics truly are a huge upgrade (same wtith audio and control) from the prior console release. They are getting the enhanced PC version after all this time, and optimized over the years so while it may not pass mustard for a large part of the PC community who has acted like they were expecting a entire "Remake", this is a huge deal for the console guys to rejoice over, and they are. I can understand how its a lesser improvement for the PC guys over the Console guys. But there still is some cool new things to play with even on the PC that made my $20 worth it. I also bought it on 360, so I have $60 invested into the BFG edition and havent been the least disapponted, actually VERY impressed and I wasnt expecting some of the additions to be nearly as nifty as they are.

If they keep the original versions around, i'm fine with that. I admit that i'm PC biased and and a retro-gamer, I'm happy for the console people that they finally got something closer to the PC version, but understand that its still not what the PC version was. Graphics is one thing, but changing gameplay is unacceptable.

Putting Doom3 aside, its more damning with what they did to classic doom. They didn't need to "update" it for political correctness/censor it. The game was made in a different time, its done and over with and people need to stop crying about an almost 19 year old game.

i have a feeling op is a PC gamer, if that's the case I can see where you're coming from. im sorry for your loss, RIP id, etc

otherwise I agree with beaver completely, i have been playing id games since the age of 5 (1996) and have not been disappointed once by their in-house projects. rage was criticized for not being what everyone assumed it would be, a huge open-world RPG/fps a la fallout. instead, we got a straightforward fps with a few twists and gunplay that felt like silk. doom 3 bfg i have no idea why everyone is up in arms about: this time they provided exactly what they said they would, sold it at $40 instead of $60, and have given console gamers a chance to experience doom 1, 2, and 3 for the first time while also giving past players of doom 3 to go back and experience it again in a new way. I am absolutely THRILLED with id right now.

let's be honest, we'll see you around again as soon as doom 4 releases. here's an early 'welcome back to the family!'

see you soon

anyone mad at doom 3 being released as one whole definitive doom set including all new levels , enhanced, and made available for current consoles gotta be out their damn mind

The op brings in very good points. Many of us agree to them. However... if you don't like the changes... then stick with vanilla doom. You can buy vanilla doom 1, 2 and 3 online and even on steam. They will always be there. Even Xbox live has fairly close vanilla original doom release on arcade.


There will always be things we like and don't like about rerelease or remakes or remasters. We hold a sentimental value to those classics and are terrified of a lucas-like mingling occurring to them.

However unlike bluray releases of star wars... we can still go and buy the unaltered versions of our game on modern systems and platforms if we don't agree with changes.

Doom 3 bfg is a steal for everything it includes. Its a treasure chest to many of us... that is of course if you Absolutely positevly can not handle or accept any update standardization or change to it in any form. With that said, I would like the original dooms to be pixel perfecf right down to .wad file accuracy on the bfg edition, but seriously, whats included is close enough to vanilla. I know we all want historical accuracy but there are countries and laws and ratings regulations since that may require editing of those secret doom 2 Wolfe Stein levles , even legal rights between companies and developers and editing that out my have even been required to put it on the disc at all.. In that case... stick with vanilla

Fair enough, but it's not that amazing of a deal.
I got Doom3 for $5, Roe for $3, and all the classic Doom games together for $10 (including final doom which this doesn't include). I'd say I got a far better deal, and with no censorship

I will get the BFG Edition at some point, once I have my Oculus Rift, but I'll wait til the game is much cheaper, $30 just aint cutting it for what it is.

Still though, I bet with the Oculus Rift I probably WILL be totally amazed, lol, it will feel like something totally new. Until then I will wait, hoping for a MAJOR patch for this re-release.

For console gamers, I'm sure the BFG edition's a decent, perhaps even great release. I'm glad it'll work for them.

But for the PC, this release is painful. On multiple counts.

Quick observation through the in-game console reveals that the so called enhancements are mostly just setting tweaks. Not really a whole lot of effort there.
The "new" level set isn't really new. It's a rehash, with the final boss of the pack as a reskinned Guardian without the seekers. I'm supposed to be excited about this?
There's less settings to configure for the BFG edition of Doom 3. It forces textures to be on high quality, for instance.

So what does it really bring, besides muddling down some variables? The armor-mounted flashlight? Mods for doom 3 did something similar for that a long time ago. Why do we need a $30 re-release on PC if it does almost nothing of value?

The classic dooms included with the BFG edition for PC are rather painful as well.
It looks alright enough from a gameplay perspective overall but the sound engine's painfully screwed up. Sounds are way too high-pitched or low-pitched compared to where they're supposed to be.
Aaand then there's the unnecessary censorship of the Doom 2 secret levels, which I take serious issue with.
I understand why; Germany's whiny about swastikas. I get that.
but in removing the resources verbatim without really putting a functional equivalent within it, the doom2.wad included with the BFG edition is, essentially, missing essential resources, locking out anyone remotely interested in checking out what the Doom community's done from being able to do so, as most source ports will look for the non-existent Wolfenstein SS. It'll look for the non-existent hitler textures and swastikas. And, I'd expect, it'd crash without these resources.
What's someone supposed to do if they want to check fan-made content out, but all they have is the BFG edition? Either shell out another $10 for something they already have, or nothing. They're screwed. This seems rather poor form for iD, which previously took some decent strides to care about what the community can do.

I'd be paying $30 to have an armor-mounted flashlight, the Xbox secret levels Sewers and Betray, and No Rest For The Living. Only the third one's worth it, and it's not worth $30.
This, to my eyes, is a lackluster release. If you're happy with it, I'm glad for you. I really am; but i'm not. I don't like what I see. I don't like what I've been seeing with iD since Quake 3.
And I really don't appreciate being called out of my damn mind just for having a different perspective, thank you very much. :\

Personally I thought quake 1, 2 were OK at best, Quake 3 was nothing more than their death match version of super smash bros. As far as Id characters go and it was blah... then again I was always more into Wolfy and doom than the entire quake series.

But coming into the 2000's... rtcw was awesome. Doom 3 was awesome. Rage is good. Wolfenstein 2009 was "meh" and Quake 4 was good. Et quake wars was the only real dud.

I know some of those mentioned were not direct I'd games. . But you get the point.

Kind of the problem. They're not direct iD games. Thus I can't count them, really. I speak for iD direct itself, which I felt had been declining staring with Quake 3, sinking to its real low with Doom 3, rebounding somewhat upwards with the adequate, if unspectacular Rage, and sinking back down again hard with this.
From my perspective.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say RIP iD, but they've certainly sunk from one of my favorite developers to a group I'm really cautious about, and that really upsets me.

I personally thought Quake3 was their worst game before Rage, I did like Doom3 though unlike many diehard ID fans. Quake3 truely was lazy, it wasnt innvoative at all and was nothing but to compete with UT which it failed at

I am also in agreement with the OP also Going the Steam only and lazy ass Ports is a fail for ID this just reminds me of another FAIL Duke Nukem Forever (The worst game i have ever waited for )
And dare i mension the last Wolfenstien another port with most annoying checkpoint system ever bah enough they dont care

And here I think we're hitting close to the mark on the reasons for the recent hatred.


You know, this is probably the most hilarious accusation ever made. Hilarious in that, if you knew anything at all about id's history, you would know only too well that a common theme in the old days was they would be accused of keeping on making the same game but just with updated technology. The "gameplay oriented game like the days of yore" thing is about as real as the fairies in the bottom of my garden.

It's not that we don't hear you bouncyTEM, nor do we suppress your right to a opinion. But its a "in one ear, out the other".

They changed some things that people complained about vanilla DOOM 3.... upped the lighting, added a armor flashlight, changed certain sound FX were the "thump" just wasnt there, enhanced menu resoultion options, and added some cool effects for todays realism hardware (3D/VR). sure, the marketing hyped up alot about the release, but if you could look past the marketing and look at what the developers have been saying, then you'd have realized what this release was from the get-go. Clearly, and well stated, even on the official FAQ from bethesda here, it states mods *do not* currently work with the game, and development tools may not be released. People who do their homework before making a purchase would clearly see that, and then stick to buying Vanilla DOOM if that was their intention. And if they did their homework before making the purchase, they wouldnt have to buy vanilla DOOM at a later date because they later wanted to mod and bought the BFG edition without reading into it. It's very clear, no matter what they had done, it just wasnt going to be good enough. Someone is still ALWAYS going to complain, they will intentionally seek out something to complain about.

I honestly hope you didn't expect that the IWAD files would be a perfect copy of the original DOOM games. They've been telling us for months that the classic DOOM games were to run in a entirely seperate manner... even the PS3/360 version use the RAGE id tech 5 engine to run them. It was clearly meant just as a simple run through for nostalgia sake. And they can do whatever they please with it... nothing was promised. We were never promised a exact vanilla DOOM 1/2 with this release, nor should one have expected that after 20 years of updates and releases. It's close enough to make 99% of the people who play it happy, all except the hardcoe PC gamer who thinks the dev's made the game specifically just for them. It's a universal release to cater to a broad range of Doom players and newcomers, not just a single group on a single machine. Let us not forget even the Doom 1/2 that was bundled with the original special edition Xbox release or the current ones on Xbox Live have a great many changes from their original vanilla counterparts.

This release was a filler-of-a-void. To get everyone upto snuff with the inevitable release of DOOM 4, and get them back in the mood. It was just a anniversary bundle, as it so clearly states on the back of the console boxes (20 years of DOOM anniversary edition). You keep saying "well Im a PC gamer and I want it THIS way, and all they do is cater to the console guys anymore". Maybe it's because the console guys are a little more grateful and appreciative of what it is they release... Somehow over the years, PC gamers thought they were owed something far more I guess. If it cant be modded out the wazoo or isnt exactly how they want it, then its "its crap". And it's with that approach that no wonder major developers have gone to console... not to mention a reduced amount of piracy, and having a larger sales audience. This was clearly a release to reintroduce people to DOOM or introduce them to the series for the first time..,. and guess where the majority of gamers are nowadays (especially the majority who havent played doom) are there, on those consoles. So it's definetely reaching to the right audience.

Nothing wrong with loving the PC vanilla versions guy, but this release was meant to be what it is, just a multi-platform bundled collection not to be altered by mods and what not(not specifically catering to anyone, specific system), polished a bit with some new features to play with. And for that, it does it very well.

Quake 1 and it's expansions are propably the best FPS' i've played, right up there with Half-Life. Quake 2 i've only played the Playystation version of, that wasn't honestly that great. I got the PC version with the id pack from a Steam sale, the but the game bugged in the prison and didn't give me a key i needed to proceed


Rage wasn't bad, the cars were fun and the shooting solid. It maybe tried a bit too hard to pretend to be more than a FPS, but still it worked. It was no Quake though

As for this release, it does seem rather poor, but i'm still looking forward to Doom 4

hmmm Quake wasnt terrible by any means, just never had the interest that DOOM held to me for some reason. Perhaps there was too much of a varinace between each one. Quake 1 had nothing to do with Quake 2 which had nothing to do with Quake 3 which had nothing to do with Quake 4 which did have something to do with Quake 2, lolool... never kept in sequence and varied too far.

From what i hear, Quake 2 was originally supposed to be named something other than Quake, but something made it impossible. So Quake and Quake 2 and 4 are different series, despite the name.

The thing is if id had just been honest and marketed this as a remaster for the consoles and just a rerelease for the PC with a couple small tweaks and 3d support added then I don't think anyone would be complaining but when they market it as a complete "remaster" they set PC players up for disappointment -- the only reason for a PC player to purchase this is if they 1 have lost all of their old copies of the original games or were not able to figure out how to get it all set up and working under windows 7 64 bit or 2 have a system that supports the 3d game play -- for those that fit in this category and for the console players it is a deal at $30 no doubt.

But for the rest of the PC market and loyal fans that still have the originals and still play the games that they had awaiting a "remaster" with updated graphics and effects it is a big disappointment since they disabled console support (in order to add in achievements for the console crowd) - changed the FOV to make it look better for those playing on a console and TV display increased all of the lighting removing most of the gloomy atmosphere that made the game what it was - changed many of the sounds doing the same.

this so hard. i dont agree with the hostility towards bounce directly, who from what i can tell from our conversation in the nazi thread is a cool fellow and is open to friendly debate, but i share youre frustration with the general attitude surrounding this release. as you can see from my post a few up or any post I've made really, i am legitimately ecstatic to have had the opportunity to add this to my collection and play a game I've always enjoyed in a new way; a style of play more akin to how the original doom games played, but without completely tearing apart what made it scary

Im not trying to be hostile towards Bounce. I understand his frustation with the PC release.

But I am being very passive aggresive that this was intended as a universal, multi-platform release of some legacy games, and sometimes people put their expectations too high on what a rerelease is. It's certainly not a remake and I personally never thought they would redo the engine or add major overhauls. I was shocked they even updated it for 3D support, and even more shocked about the VR update. That alone is worth the $$$ to me. I was glad to be able to select my resolution and aspect ratio on the fly in doom 3, but I was disappointed that stuff like "IDDQD" or "IDKFA" no longer worked in the classic dooms, but I mean, they are there for legacy reasons only... to play through them for a quick refresher and understood I'm lucky at all to still be playing it and have a worldwide release of some form of it 20 years later. I can always go back and play by vanilla copies... and if im too lazy to do that, the included classics in the BFG edition are close enough. It makes me appreciate my youth more... My nephew picked up the console version... he's today version of the once-was PC gamers of yester-decade. He loved playing the classics, and it made me smile seeing him get a kick out of something I once invested so much time and memories into. It's the 30-somethings that are the hardcoe PC gamers... this generation is primarily console. I appreciate my days of IDDQD and dos prompts and autoexec.bat's and IRQ settings, some of the best memories. Doom classic release is a reflection of that, but without all the hassle for todays times.

Did the marketing terms for the PC release mislead some? Probably... but thats if you buy into marketing hype. I've played WAYYYYY too many games to buy into hype anymore.

Welcome to gaming of the 2010s, Steam is the norm and consoles are the main platform


Perhaps thats true, but games back then had good gameplay regardless. Games now days only focus on good graphics and big explosions because thats what sells to the new generation of gamers, its a different time that this oldschooler doesn't like

The thing is though that it actually was marketed as that. "Remastered for XBox 360 and PS3" was all over the marketing; people actually had to ask (on numerous occasions) if there was even going to be a PC version. Nobody can say that they were misled here. You can even go all the way back to the first trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq2XWAQxUk) and it's right there at the 20-second mark - "remastered for XBox 360 and PS3", no mention of PC.

But you could see this coming; everyone had gotten wound up with demands for what should have been in it, a few people were getting over-emotional with the hate stuff, and we have the inevitable result. People just didn't read the marketing material; they didn't read the adverts; they didn't read the interviews; and what they did read obviously didn't sink in. People had their own internal vision of what it was going to be, and when reality didn't match - well, boom.

Most of you lot should read this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-11-why-devs-owe-you-nothing

There was no remastering whatsoever, no matter what's the platform. So they shouldn't even have marketed it as being "remastered", they should've just called it a rerelease for all platforms.