Integral? I never even used it when I could.

Also we lost,

Dispel
Command creature and humanoid
Poison
Weakness spells
Damage health, magic, and stamina
Detect key and enchantment
Slow fall
Higher jump spell
Mark/recall
Summon more creatures


Also with spell creation you could change the magnitude, duration, and the area of effect.

Eh.

I found it too OP.

I really dont care about spell making, I honestly think that this was a step in the right direction for TES, but they didnt go all the way spells need to be able to level with you, but at least I can mod this back in

What you say above is "no variety".

What you mean is "nothing new".

Very much different things.

I don't believe they tacked magic on as an afterthought, I think it was cut back in an effort to finish the game so their adverts could have a lot of 11's in them. I mean, the game has clearly been rushed. lots of things are missing (the much vaunted economy system for example, marriage consisting of more than turning a NPC into a crazy stalker, etc). I think it was going to take too much time to balance magic properly, so they cut back the number of spells so they could balance them better.

As it is right now we are very limited. We do have zero options with magic, and I am not going to get enthralled by pretty effects. That does not cover up the utter lack of options. Sure there is some options to choose in this game but not as many as Oblivion and definitely not as much as Morrowind, I never did play Daggerfall but I know there was more spells in that game. There is no reason they keep cutting away at magic, now they have severed the head if the snake with the exclusion if spell creation.

Ah I play my Trap card

-people in favor of no spell making argue that Oblivion and below HAD no variety, "colored balls" they say and that the flash and flare of Skyrim for some reason alleviates this- SO in my favor of which you've played handily. they are in essense the same in this case, no variety and nothing new. except for the flashyness of course.

1-10flames
10-20firebolt
20-30fireball
30-rest of game incinerate (u will still be casting this 90 points of damage spell even @lvl 80 )
Its crazy its like they didnt finish making the game or something???

I just compiled some info off the wiki:

Alteration Spells - 15 (12 Unique)
Conjuration Spells - 24 (15 Unique, Not including permanent Atronach summons or permanent Revive either)
Destruction Spells - 26 (16 Unique)
Illusion Spells - 16 (9 Unique)
Restoration Spells - 16 (8 Unique)
Total Spells - 98 (60 Unique)

5 Spells (3 Unique) Are spells specifically for doing certain quests, or only available when a Vampire or wearing a specific item.

Oblivion had 62 unique spell effects. But it should be noted that a lot of Skyrim's "unique spells" are only unique because one version is Fire Damage as long as you hold the button down and the other is a targeted spell. If you lowered it to just Spell Effects in Skyrim they have about 30.

Spell making is gone from TES forever. Bethesda wanted to make a simplistic game that everyone wanted to play, so there's simply no way that they'll ever add something that they think is the complete opposite of that. It will not be added through DLC or expansions and it will not be in the next TES game(s).

If you played TES games because of spell making (and complexity), it's time to look elsewhere. svcks, and I absolutely hate them for it, but there's nothing we can do about it.

That kind of depresses me.

TES should be about freedom and roleplaying how you want. Because people complained about the "OP" magic in Oblivion, Beth has ruined the magic in the game for everyone who needed spell making to properly role play.

I hope all of the "I lackz teh self control! Pleez cut content, Beth!" have something they like in the game completely ruined for them just to spite them.

You never know. Beth brought an enchanting skill back, didn't they?
I'm doubtful, but the company does look at mods to see what's particularly popular. If a spell-making mod gets really popular, they'd probably consider it, at least

What about the 10 hour mark, where the 8 point flames/frostbite and sparks spells don't do enough damage to make them worthwhile against normal enemies?

I remember the first time I picked up an apprentice level destruction spell. My world changed.

I'm not inherently against Spellmaking being in Skyrim, granted that it's actually done well and works with the dual wield casting mechanics...

But I disagree that Spellmaking is "integral" to TES magic, and I think what it is actually capable of is grossly over exaggerated on these forums.

that only takes one change-keying the spells damage to your destruction skill

I agree with this. 100%

Spellmaking, if implemented in a way that would work with the current mechanics, would obviously upgrade it further, but I will take the current spellcasting mechanics over Spellmaking, which was never capable of much anyways, everyday.

No it didn't. You continue to throw this claim around, but it is 100% false.

Spellmaking did not allow you to do things that were not already possible without it. All it allowed you to do was combine and tweak those things.

You can play the same exact builds without Spellmaking than you can with it. Spellmaking doesn't add new and unique builds. You are still using the same limits of spell effects from the same handfuls of schools. Nothing changes with Spellmaking.

This.

Right direction.

Not fully implemented.

The game lacks spell effects. However, the gameplay mechanics surrounding magic are superior to games past as allow for much more potential.

I don't understand how people say that magic has improved compared to previous games. Yes, we got some new casting methods like flamethrower and runes, but we lost a large amount of spell effects and an extreme amount of customization. Graphics are more or less irrelevant to me, so I don't factor them in whether magic has been improved. It's the mechanics that count.

And this time around, the mechanics are actually BETTER. The last two games only had three different delivery types. Now we have a bunch. And they're actually fun to use(In my opinion, but given the thin line between fact and opinion here, it might as well be truth )
being able to use two different spells simultaneously opens up a lot of new doors. The ward spells in particular are awesome, and they give mage duels a hell of a lot more potential than they ever had before. The dual-casting also has potential-Bethesda just didn't tap it. an example that I just thought of: having the ability to make destruction spells inflict temporary weakness to the element of the spell type used, which doesn't stack with itself for either duration or magnitude, and only happens 10% of the time
I agree on the lack of spell effects-more would have been nice. However, that doesn't have jack squat to do with the mechanics.

Agreed 100%

You said it best. There is loads more potential with this system, it just simply wasn't tapped. Some strong DLC can really capitalize on this.

And you're right, the lack of effects has nothing to do with the mechanics.

This is the right direction to take, and offers more flexibility than Spellmaking ever could, it just simply wasn't utilized to it's full potential.

You realize that spell creation is in no way mutually exclusive with the new casting methods, right? In fact, spell creation would have been amazing in Skyrim if we could have played around with things like healing runes or fear flamethrowers. Stripping customization is never the right direction, especially in a role playing game.

Actually I'd say it was the worst implementation so far. Not only are the effects trimmed down(which actually has a lot to do with mechanics) as pointed out but the effects that are in are implemented in a poor fashion with no scaling of damage for an effect either through skill scaling or like in previous games improved versions of the spells but the magicka to power ratios are so far off from good the game is virtually unplayable without gimmicking the system. All we got was flash with reduced function in every sense of the term.

Heh, of course Nell. If gamesas decided to only put one race, one weapon, and no spells into the game, you'd be fine with that as well. You're the kind of RP'er who prefer a book full of blank pages because then you can just imagine everything else, and I'm guessing you have a blast RP'ing in the various GTA games, where there's little done by the devs to interfere with your stories.

That said, it's kind of hard to get around the fact that spells are stupidly limited in Skyrim. There's no good reason that we can't get to balance casting cost vs damage of a flame thrower spell. There's no good reason that we can't get a fireball with as much or little damage of the type we want it to be. There's no good reason why we can't make a paralysis rune spell. There are so many absolutely terrifically cool options that we don't get to play with, and it's frankly quite hard for me to take it serious, when some people suggest it wouldn't matter at all, because we're just as well off with gamesas deciding everything for us.

The guy is saying that you don't need more variety with all the variety you've given in the game. Despite the fact that we're not given any variety. Conclusion: Dude has to be paid by gamesas to spew such obvious nonsense. You're agreeing with him 100%, so, ehm, yeah...



So when playing with LEGO, having the individual pieces lying in piles or combining them into something cool is the same thing? Having individual spell effects is like individual LEGO pieces. They might be fancy but there's only so much fun to be had. The real fun is, and the real feeling of being a true mage, is when you get to combine your effects into a whole that is decidedly greater than the sum of its parts.

Imagine just how cool it is to add a four second paralysis effect to a fireball. Costs a bit more but you can cast it, do some hurt, and get plenty of time to reposition yourself. How about a weakness spell and a fireball? Maximum damage. How about slow and a fireball? But all that isn't possible. You can almost pretend to do it by dual casting fireballs with the stagger perk, but that requires you to dual cast. With Skyrim's system and spell creation, you could've cast a stunning fireball with one hand while healing or holding a ward in the other. If you can honestly say you don't think that option would've been awesome then I submit that you're a sad excuse of an RP'er and that your sole reason to be on this forum is to brown-nose gamesas. Sorry.

Nothing can change if you're unwilling to think outside the box. Your box is whatever gamesas says it is, and so you refuse to do anything that might bring you close to one of the sides, much less peak through any holes in the cardboard.

If you really can't see how a good number of spell delivery methods (flame thrower / stream, rune, explosive ball, center on player, touch, targeted bolt, targeted AOE) combined with the solid number of spell effects can be combined with Skyrim's dual cast system could be combined into something vastly greater than what is actually in Skyrim, then I pity you. I'm hardly creative and I can see vast options for funny combinations. Combinations that really would make you feel like a badass arch-mage.