Stormcloacks or Imperial

Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:31 am

I love how they made so many possible way this could play out that we have no idea what will happen. I have a feeling that if they wanted Bethesda could just come to this forum, find all the Imperial Legion V Stoemcloaks threads and just go through them picking out the possibilities who offers the least amount of loose ends(for example in my half serious upset where the Empire re-conqueror Skyrim even after loosing the Civil War) and just roll with it. We have probably spent more time thinking about this and looking through layers of possibilities on this forum than they ever would.

You know, for a sub-mediocre questline, it sure stirs up a lot of controversy and discussion.
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Jason White
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:15 pm

The point is that the "Divide and Conquer" argument is invalid here because the Thalmor lose either way.

Also try this approach(just to show how perspective work):

Stormcloak victory, open hostilities with the Dominion. Leads to small scale battles, draining Skyrims and the Dominions resources.
The Emprei is now in a state of peace and can focus on building its legions without having to worry about the civil war. Leads to the Empire growing stronger.
Since the Dominion is weakening Hammerfell decides to join the party and start a small scale war with the Dominion, draining both of them of resources.
This again leads to larger attacks on the Dominion, who is weakening. The Empire who have used all this time to bide their time now decides to denounce the WGC and joins with the sacking of the Dominion. Leads to the fall of the Second Aldmeri Dominion.
Skyrim and Hammerfell are weakened by their longtime wars with the Dominion and is re-conquered by the Empire who is now the nation with the strongest hand.

This is one way you can see the situation.

Empire? Peace? Wut?

Should the Stormcloaks win, one of their top generals is lacking a head, they lost the probably least damaged provinces from the war, and they're now cut off from High Rock.

If Skyrim secedes, then High Rock will likely decide to secede. Couple that with Valenwood, Hammerfell, Eleswyr, and Blackmarsh already seceded, and it's a mess.

I've said it so many times before, but it's not sinking in: Divide and Conquer. Stormcloaks winning causes that win condition to become more probable for the Thalmor.
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:27 pm

Empire? Peace? Wut?

Should the Stormcloaks win, one of their top generals is lacking a head, they lost the probably least damaged provinces from the war, and they're now cut off from High Rock.
And they won't have to use resources at any sort off war. If you couldn't tell: War takes a lot of resources, largely due to the fact that the army must be supplied.

When the CW is over the Empire will be left to rebuild itself, regardless of what side who wins.
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Bellismydesi
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:16 am

And they won't have to use resources at any sort off war. If you couldn't tell: War takes a lot of resources, largely due to the fact that the army must be supplied.

When the CW is over the Empire will be left to rebuild itself, regardless of what side who wins.

Perhaps you missed that "least damaged province" bit.

With what resources? Cyrodiil got utterly sacked by the war.
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Mariaa EM.
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:36 pm

Perhaps you missed that "least damaged province" bit.

With what resources?
It has been 30 years, crops have been resown and the population is rising again. Cyrodiil is already rebuilding itself. The main resources would be coin, food and people. Judging from what I learned in Skyrim Cyrodiil should have a decent amount of that by now.
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abi
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:32 pm

Perhaps you missed that "least damaged province" bit.

With what resources? Cyrodiil got utterly sacked by the war.

Germany got hit pretty hard in WW1 and was stuck with a horrid economy.
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BRIANNA
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Stormcloaks- Pro: Honorable, standing up to their ways, their traditions, what the Nord stands for and the Nordic way of life.
Con: Stereotypically, the stormcloaks are racist, but that's just Ulfric and many Nords and dunmer are racist to begin with. Ever been to Morrowind? If you were any other race but dunmer, you are hated. If you're a dunmer, you're an outsider. Dunmer are getting what was coming to them in Skyrim.

Imperial- Pro: They've protected all of Tamriel with the divine wisdom of the Septim bloodline. Now that it's shattered, it's slowly falling apart. They only want to keep order and peace across Tamriel.
Con: They can be seen as an evil empire. They're loosing power over Tamriel and will stop at nothing to lose it. A "peace treaty" and "surrender" is very much the same. Final Fantasy XII anyone? :D

The problem is, is that if you're not a nord you have NO reason to join the stormcloaks. Let's think this through. The Nords HATE elves, and beats races aren't even allowed in the cities aside from argonians, who are still greatly discriminated against. High elves are the worst of the elves, and the Thalmor has united with the Imperials. So surrendering to the Imperials is the same as surrendering to the Thalmor. That's not going to happen. Out of all the races, the Nords should not and can not by any means or honor stand down.

So that leaves Bretons, Redguards and maybe orcs (they are mer) to join them. They're flipping off everyone else, which truly limits incentive to join them in the first place. Even then, Nords have plenty of reason to join the Imperials. The only time I'd ever join the Stormcloaks is if I'm playing as a Nord or maybe and orc. The Redguard and Breton have much more reason to ally themselves with the empire for trade and political purposes. So my main character is an orc, and there's little pride in joining them. I don't feel like I'm a part of the fight. I'd rather go back to my tribe outside of society, or carve my honor with the Imperials.

So after truly going through it, ONLY a Nord should fight for the Stormcloaks, and even then there's a 25% chance that I'd join the Imperials and stay with the empire, but that would be highly dishonorably for a Nord to do so. Cowardly, even. If I'd join, it would be for the empire regardless of the Thalmor. But that's what makes a Nord, a Nord. He MUST join the stormcloaks for the sake of his people.

In conclusion, I'm usually not joining any side, and if I am I'll always join the empire unless I'm playing as a Nord, which is my least favorite race, so it's unprobable I ever will.
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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:44 am


The problem is, is that if you're not a nord you have NO reason to join the stormcloaks.
Not so. There are elves living in Skyrim, married to Nords and while there has always been mistrust of Mer for good reasons, "Nords hate all elves" is an exaggeration. There is plenty of reason for a redguard to join the Stormcloaks. The empire did nothing for Morrowind after Vvardenfell, so there's no reason a Dunmer should feel any compulsion to help the empire. And the imperial Nords are just as xenophobic as anybody else. The beast races aren't tolerated in imperial holds any more than in Stormcloak holds. Also, Black Marsh and Elsweyr have gone over to the Dominion, so it's a little hypocritical to fight to force Nords to do something your own people weren't willing to.

I also don't think you "have" to support the Stormcloaks as a Nord. There are good reasons to go either way.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:17 pm

Black Marsh didn't join Dominion?
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:41 am

Black Marsh didn't join Dominion?
They've left the empire, and there are rumors that the Dominion was supporting them in their invasion of Morrowind. It's not official, but Black Marsh is certainly in their umbrella. Regardless, point being, they seceded from the empire.
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His Bella
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:44 pm

They've left the empire, and there are rumors that the Dominion was supporting them in their invasion of Morrowind. It's not official, but Black Marsh is certainly in their umbrella. Regardless, point being, they seceded from the empire.
I think Black Marsh just wants to be left alone for now. The Dominion has tried coercing them, but hasn't seen any success so far.

Neither side will see much benefit in holding it.
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:06 pm


And they won't have to use resources at any sort off war. If you couldn't tell: War takes a lot of resources, largely due to the fact that the army must be supplied. When the CW is over the Empire will be left to rebuild itself, regardless of what side who wins.
Thats unlikely if the stormcloaks win losing an important province would make the empire look weak. Other provinces would get ideas about independence and strike while the iron is hot.
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stevie critchley
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:36 pm

Thats unlikely if the stormcloaks win losing an important province would make the empire look weak. Other provinces would get ideas about independence and strike while the iron is hot.
Only High Rock would be left. If they decide to secced it wouldn't hurt the Empire much I think. The Empire is hurt by the Skyrim Civil War because they have to support the side who do not want to secced, costing them resources. Hammerfell secceded without declaring war. Unless it became a civil war in High Rock it would likely end much the same way.

I am under the impression that the Empire wouldn't even bother to try to hold Skyrim if it weren't for the fact that there are very large numbes of Imperial supporters(likely about the same amount as Stormcloaks). If all of Skyrims Jarls and the High King wanted to secced the Empire would likely not bother to try to hold it, they have enough to worry about with the Thalmor.
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Alex Blacke
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:01 pm

It has been 30 years, crops have been resown and the population is rising again. Cyrodiil is already rebuilding itself. The main resources would be coin, food and people. Judging from what I learned in Skyrim Cyrodiil should have a decent amount of that by now.

Germany got hit pretty hard in WW1 and was stuck with a horrid economy.
I was surprised to learn that 30 years have passed since the Great War. Everyone in the game acts like it happened just yesterday. That is plenty of time for Cyrodiil to have grown an entirely new generation of warriors, and rebuilt its cities, farms, and economy in general. A decade longer then they really need to, given what we have seen historically. They ought to be taking the war to the Dominion, as it will take the elves a lot longer to recover the lives they lost in the war. The only reason I can see for Cyrodiil not burning the White Gold Concordant is that the Emperor must be an Aldmeri agent. We have seen an Emperor kidnapped and replaced by a doppelganger in the past. The Thalmor might have taken a cue from Jagar Tharn, and did it again.
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Pete Schmitzer
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:44 pm

I chose the Empire but i play as a Nord so it was hard to go against the Stormcloacks
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Nathan Risch
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:22 pm

I was surprised to learn that 30 years have passed since the Great War. Everyone in the game acts like it happened just yesterday. That is plenty of time for Cyrodiil to have grown an entirely new generation of warriors, and rebuilt its cities, farms, and economy in general. A decade longer then they really need to, given what we have seen historically. They ought to be taking the war to the Dominion, as it will take the elves a lot longer to recover the lives they lost in the war. The only reason I can see for Cyrodiil not burning the White Gold Concordant is that the Emperor must be an Aldmeri agent. We have seen an Emperor kidnapped and replaced by a doppelganger in the past. The Thalmor might have taken a cue from Jagar Tharn, and did it again.
I don't think so. I think the reason the WGC still stands is because the Empire know very little about the Dominion. They have little to no idea what is going on in the Dominions provinces, no idea what military strength they have or how much they know about the inner workings of the Empire.

EDIT:
Despite the fact that we as players can know so much more than the characters in the game, but even we can only speculate on most of the Dominion. We have no idea what their current military strength is, despite one can speculate that they are very weak in that area.
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Sammie LM
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:05 pm

Hello, im with a big doubt, Racism or Corruption (Stormcloack or IMperial)

Stormcloack have a good point but that racism svcks =/ and imperial is corrupted but isnt hitler xD

plz give me ur oppinions
Stormcloaks aren't racists. There are some in their order but it's not their ideology. Imperials however are occupiers and they have both social and religion based discrimination in their Empire.
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:01 am

Stormcloaks aren't racists. There are some in their order but it's not their ideology. Imperials however are occupiers and they have both social and religion based discrimination in their Empire.

Occupiers? Nords have founded the Empire and it was present in Skyrim since time immemorial - you can basically backtrack every aspect of Imperial culture back to some sort of a Nordic root (religion being one of those examples)
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Laura Samson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:29 pm

I think Black Marsh just wants to be left alone for now. The Dominion has tried coercing them, but hasn't seen any success so far.

Neither side will see much benefit in holding it.
Even if that's true, it still makes it pretty hypocritical for an Argonian character to support the empire, given that (some) Nords also want to be left alone. Not that there aren't reasons why they still might decide to fight for the imperials, but it's hardly as the one poster said, that there are no reasons for non-Nord PCs to support the Stormcloaks.
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Andrew Lang
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:56 pm

Occupiers? Nords have founded the Empire and it was present in Skyrim since time immemorial - you can basically backtrack every aspect of Imperial culture back to some sort of a Nordic root (religion being one of those examples)
Cyrodiil functions as an occupation force now, however, and without the Septims, the empire is no longer what it was historically.
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Bonnie Clyde
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:54 pm

I think those kind of debates are pointless. You guys have no real power over what will happen or not in Skyrim. Everyone is playing alone in Skyrim. Only you can decide what is right and what is wrong in the game.

The Thalmor will probably never prevail in Skyrim (I really hope not) but it's up to Bethesda to choose if the Imperials or the Stormcloaks will rule Skyrim in the next era.

Maybe Bethesda will post a poll to determine if the Empire or the Stormcloaks will truly rule Skyrim but I highly doubt it will happen.

You can agree or disagree with me but this what I think about all this.
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lolli
 
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