Yeah, when Beth sits down and decides this they will most likely give them both a fair chance, or overrule the choice. It still comes down to the fact that whether Ulfric was unjustly imprisioned or not is in the end irrelevant. Same goes for the Stormcloaks being pro-Nord or racist. It is not the most important question.

Ulfric seems to have it in his head that only Skyrim is chafing under the current state of affairs in the Empire.

And as for the Foresworn... there's a TVTrope for that: "Kick The Son Of A &#$%." I just find it really hard to feel sorry for them. For those that got caught in the crossfire, yeah... but the Foresworn themselves? They're just as bad if not worse than the Nords in the reach they claim oppress them.

Hence my sig.

Hey, Hjalti did it...

Another question do they plan on changing the endings for the Civil War quests for the canon ending and you'll have to re-do the war on another character.

My predictions: The Mede dynasty and Empire collapses, a new one is started by the Dragonborn or someone who he meets and helps come to power in the DLC, the Thalmor are defeated, and Ulfric Stormcloak dies and is reverred as a martyr and war hero.

Why does that matter? Either Skyrim has a right to sovereignty or it doesn't.

Typo on Forsworn.

That the thing, it was the damm nords who started the empire, they disgust me, the nords were originally one of the mede family's supporters, and when he does one decision the back out, as alvor said "Nords have never been fair-weather allies".

A good guess I'll say. Another possibility is that someone(much like Mede) takes control of what is left of the Empire and uses it to build a new one. However, combine our guesses and you'll have the consequence from chosing sides in the Civil War.

Stormcloak = An entirely new one arise since the last one is destroyed.
Empire = A new one emerge, but uses the remnants of the old to build itself.

Does it? If it wants it.

Should it? Definitely not, if it wants to have any hope of throwing off the Thalmor. Realistically, Skyrim has no chance to withstand the full might of the Dominion; both the Sword and War Axe, and the Cloak and Dagger. The Empire barely withstood it, what hope would a lone province have?

But of course Beth will make sure to cater to the Stormcloak fans, having them somehow being able to defeat the Thalmor without the full might of the Empire alongside it.

In the history of the 4th era it says that Skyrim accepted Mede as emperor after he had conquered his competition in Cyrodiil. That sounds like Skyrim approved it after the fact.

Alvor's words are pretty ironic considering that the empire is selling Skyrim out as it did to Hammerfell, to save Cyrodiil's skin from the Dominion.


Point being the empire didn't withstand it- although they may have if they had pressed their advantage after Red Ring. Instead, Mede blinked. The redguard, on their own, did withstand the Thalmor. So, you were saying...?

All that beside the fact that the Stormcloaks do not intend to fight the Dominion alone. Ulfric and Galmar are already reaching out to Hammerfell and High Rock as of game time. Cyrodiil will have to make common cause. They don't have to be the ones in charge.

Or, you know, you could just be wrong. For one thing, if Talos is sufficiently weakened, then none of it will matter. So it's not just a matter of mathematics. This is Tamriel and the mythical is usually the more important factor. Talos worship having free rein where it is strongest, the Snow Tower free and not beholden to the crippling WGC, a patch of ground that would be almost impossible for a foreign power to hold even if they took it... That is not something the Dominion wants to see happen. It's in Ulfric's dossier, so you can take it from them.

HAMMERFELL HAS ALREADY PROVEN THAT YOU DON'T NEED THE EMPIRE'S HELP TO DEFEAT THE THALMOR. And don't act like the Thalmor weren't hit just as hard, if not worse than the Empire in the Great War.

Are they saving their own skin, or are they biding their time? It is telling that the Thalmor are A-OK with Ulfric rabble-rousing, because it disrupts the Empire's recuperation plans for the next round.

Well, barely withstood it is far from accurate. The main body of the Aldmeri army was defeated at the Battle of Red Ring, and the Dominion couldn't defeat an Empire at its military lowpoint with the advatage of crippling the Empires intelligence and being the only party prepared for war. Also take into consideration that Hammerfell threw the Dominion out almost alone. Yes, I could see Skyrim standing on it's own, even though I prefer the Empire.

Allcaps, huh?

That was immediately after the Great War, when all sides were weakened. It's been 30 years hence, and the Thalmor have definitely recuperated. Now, you have a province who is still bloody from its own civil war against the Thalmor who are... not bloodied by a civil war. Who would win that realistically?

Also, IIRC, the Legion that was in Skyrim at the time was the most recuperated of all legions since the Great War. Great job tossing them out.

You don't get it, the Thalmor are monsters, Do you know there power? That Ex-Thalmor mage in falkreaths journal proves how powerful there mages are.

Oh hi Tdroid, I didn't recognize ya there. Did you change your avatar? You used to have a picture of some robot humanoid person before, right?

I'd just like to corrolate something to your comment. The Aldmeri Dominion could neither defeat the Empire at one of its most weakest points in history, nor could it defeat the independant Redguard nation with its largest army.

And the Battle of Red Ring and the war in Hammerfell proves how powerful Redguards, Nords, Bretons and Imperials are.

Hammerfell fought off the strongest Aldmeri Army, which didn't experience any of the fighting in Cyrodiil. The army that was in southern Hammerfell was not weakened by the fighting in Cyrodiil.

I had a Warcraft 3 Paladin, then a Warrior-Priest from Warhammer and now I have the "What the..." meme face. So yes, I changed my avatar

Another thing one must remember it that Skyrim would not "stand alone" as it where, even without official allies. Just about every other nation want the Thalmor dead and if one attacks you can bet the other ones will see their chance. And the Dominion would have to go through Cyrodiil or Hammerfell to get to them(yeah, they could go the seaway, but somehow I don't think the Redguards would take kindly to a passing fleet near their territory) to get to Skyrim.

Just about the only nation who can expect to be reasonably stable after the next conflict with the Dominion is Skyrim, regardless of who wins the CW.

I prefer the Empire because i see them bringing more stability in the aftermath of the coming conflict, and because I believe that the Empire with Skyrim can defeat the Dominion faster than the Empire who is distrustful, if not openly hostile, relationship with Skyrim.

They are okay with it as long as Ulfric doesn't win. That, the dossier says, is also undesirable.

That's presuming there'd be an Empire with Skyrim seceded. Between Cyrodiil and High Rock is Skyrim or Hammerfell. Skyrim secession would break the Empire's back.

Divide and conquer.

An independant Skyrim wouldn't be hostile to the Empire unless the Empire continued to attack. The whole reason why the Stormcloaks are fighting is so that Skyrim can become independant, not because they want to bring down the Empire.

Have you read the Dossier on Ulfric? The one meant for Thalmor eyes only, with no reason to lie? It says black on white that if either side wins it is bad for the Thalmor. And losing Skyrim will not destroy the Empire overnight. Even if it does fall it will take time.

For some reason a lot of people think that if Skyrim secedes the Dominion will go to war with the Empire again.

And I suppose the hostilities towards any shops that aren't Nord in Whiterun after the 'Cloaks take over is just... incidental? The Stormcloaks want the Empire out. Why would they let the Empire use Skyrim as a conduit to High Rock?



No, they'd go to war with Skyrim, who is not the entirety of the Empire even when it was part of it.

As I said before... Divide and Conquer.

If you're talking about the imperial smith, think for a minute who her father is.

High Rock would probably go independent as well. They've had their own anti-imperial currents in the past, moreso than Skyrim.