That's just how they come across to me. They seem to think they're better than everyone else. I can't stand them. I got no problems with them, I just avoid them as best I can.

You're contradicting yourself Harvey Dent.

Yeah, maybe I am. I think I have to get some sleep, been awake far too long ^^
But seriously, in theory I have no problem with them, they haven't done ME anything wrong. I just don't like them imposing their inferiority all the time. But I don't go randomly killing imperials just because I don't like them. I'm a good Nord

That's how I feel about both sides, except I'm a Breton. I also had this policy regarding Thalmor too, but then they decided to send a couple agents after me. Now I'll jump off a cliff if it means getting down to them so I can get branded as a heretic and add more robes to my collection.

How is that fallacious?

Yeah, I don't know how I'll feel about it later in the game. Maybe I'll turn completely farther into the came, but as of now, I'll stick to my current opinion

What Racism? You mean those two town drunks that you meet in Windhelm (neither of whom are Stormcloaks) represent the views of an entire faction? That's a little labelist.

I beg to differ. Hammerfell, along with the help of a few invalid Legionnares, managed to fight off Lady Arannayela's army, which was the largest Aldmeri Army and it hadn't experienced any of the fighting in Cyrodiil. Lord Narifiin's Army was completely annihilated. Not to mention, the Dominion wasn't at war when they were fighting the Redguards. Hammerfell was their only military threat.

And what does the Empire consist of? Cyrodiil, half of Skyrim, High Rock, and nominally Morrowind? The Empire is going to have just as much trouble. There's a reason why the Thalmor don't want either side to win, you know.

Empire, And guys don't throw personally insults around

I don't think you can fairly disqualify them as Stormcloaks. Once-Honored is a veteran who was wounded fighting under Ulfric's Banner, and Rolff is Galmar's brother. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that they are Stormcloaks. Just because they aren't in uniform doesn't mean that's not the side they've chosen. At the very least you have to call them Stormcloak sympathizers/supporters.

You were illegally crossing the border, maybe that doesn't warrant death but its still a crime. Also, was Tullius aware of this? He's off standing by the block while the Imperial Officer and Hadvar are questioning you. It seems more likely that the officer was just a horrible person and decided to cast a nameless prisoner's life away. One face shouldn't represent a mass.

I think the fact that the Imperials try to kill you in the beginning is a big influence as to why many players throw their lot in with the Stormcloaks (that and because most play Nords because its set in Skyrim). After playing previous games, I've always liked the Empire, and I think thats why I joined them, despite the fact that their not the same Empire I knew 200 years ago.

Yes, some other former Stormcloaks like Solaf, are quite friendly, regardless of your race. You cannot label the Stormcloaks as racist. Maybe some Nords are more fundamental than others, but they are clearly mixed.

Sure i can. They are very obviously racist. No doubt.

I don't think you were illegally passing into Skyrim, if you were, I'd like some in-game proof that it was illegal. Instead, you just got caught up in the Legion-Stormcloak crossfire.

And I don't understand your thinking. Yes, Tullius was standing around next to the chopping block, a mere 5/10m away from you. He wasn't talking to anyone, the only person he speaks to is Ulfric. All your asked is who you are. And then, the only conversation you hear is "Captain, what should we do? He/She's not on the list. Forget it, he/she goes to the block."

About as much as I can label the Empire Elf-lovers

At this point the main reason I'm pro Empire is because I don't like the Stormcloak Jarls. Two of them are dreadfully paranoid, one of them a corrupt real-estate mogul, one is completely incompetent with no signs of trying to improve, and another is completely delusional with his hero worship of Ulfric. Even the one I don't have that big of a problem with replaces a character I like and constantly reminds me I'm "not as dumb as [I] look." I think Ulfric has unjustly usurped power by blocking the Moot, and I don't care for his general behavior overall whenever you have to deal with him. I agree with the Stormcloak cause, but not it's leaders and while principles are important, what is more important is how they are practiced, and that will come down to their leaders. And since I have no faith in how their leaders will implement and practice the principles, the principles become a moot point.

Just something I thought about: Both sides of this argument uses the "Don't judge a faction based on one or two of their members/sympathizers", but something I find wired is how many of the Stormcloak supporters points to the Imperial Captain, who senteced you to death without consorting with Tullius(in other words he probbaly wouldn't even know you weren't a Stormcloak), while many Imperial supporters judge the Stormcloaks by the actions of Rolf Stone-Fist and that Once-Honored fellow, who are basicly drunks down on their luck and would blame anyone or anything.

I just find it a bit funny.

Okay.

Ironic, really. Truth is, most people who have chosen a side in the war haven't put much thought into it.

And they are way too obsessed with who tossed who under the buss. That is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant to the situation as I see it. Yes, Ulfric was unjustly prisoned and Titius Mede accepted a raw deal. Ulfric is obviously pro-Nord, no matter how you look at it(though that someone claims he would go on a ethnic cleansing is something I find simply unbelievable). Bad things happened, but now people should see to the solutions of the situation as it is, not how it should have been.

What really matters is this: Who do you think has the better chance of defeating the Dominion and establishing peace in the long run?

"If you know any true sons and daughters of Skyrim ..." "Skyrim for the Nords ..."

I've heard it a hundred times. Clearly, even though my characters is a Nord, apparently, my ass is not white enough to be considered a "true nord" ...

Not necessarily. Both have an equal chance of defeating the Dominion and establishing peace (Bethesda will see to that). What I'm curious to see, and hopefully we will see this in DLC, is how Bethesda are going to create a canon ending that will not be affected by the side you chose. Of course, I doubt they'll have a problem after what they did with the Daggerfall/Morrowind transition.

"Skyrim is for the Nords" is a battle cry. Everyone uses it, including the Empire supporters. And it doesn't mean kick all other races out of the province.

The second is a battlecry issued to just about all nord characters in the game, even the Imperial supporters and/or legionaires. The first is a generic recruitment-line, and it gives you the objective to go to Windhelm.