Several things, how does someone's level, and how big the world is-not even mentioning what you can do or see-have any relevance to the topic?

The title shouldn't be "TES vs WoW", because WoW has lore, sure, but its practically impossible to find, it should have been "TES vs Warcraft". TES has very mythic lore, while Warcraft's is more straightforward. The lore is also important within the story of Warcraft too, just as TES. Warcraft wins in presentation for me, while TES wins in pure depth.

Didn't Blizzard say that WoW was an alternate story that will not affect Warcraft 4? Well, Illidan didn't die anyways, and hopefully Arthas doesn't die in the Wrath of the Lich King. The very idea of anybody being able to touch Arthas repulses me. I mean, he's practically the most powerful being on all of Azeroth. If we kill him, I want to kill him in a strategy setting, or in a super duper awesome cutscene in a strategy setting.

[Nitpicking] He's already acknowledged he meant town in Khanduras, which it was. And after Tassadar sacrificed, I recall En Taro Tassadar was used. Both Adun and Tassadar are considered heroes.[/nitpicking]

:mellow: Meh, I just recalled that the typical greeting was Adun. But I didn't know that about the Khanduras. Sorry.

Really? When did the say that? It makes sense, cuz all MMORPG eventually end up killing every important lore-figure. I mean you star killing the kobolds in a mine, then you kill the psycho nelf who has allied with the demons and after a while you'll probably en up killing gods and such, afer all you can't have every important character running off once his health bar has gone down to 1/99999...99 (ehem, Illidan).

Illidan was cool, untill I saw the green gas coming out of his wings. Then... Meh.

warhammer has alot of lore to it.

Most of it just archetype and ethnic stereotype given a shot in the arm, however.

Their concept art is their lore, and it's almost a substitute.

WoW lore is... adequate, I guess. Nothing ground breaking. Arena and Daggerfall lore was pretty mediocre, too. Then came Morrowind, which is in my opinion one of the best-written games ever. Whole unique cultures created, weird temple philosophies cooked up, defiance of fantasy norms, it beats Warcraft by a long shot. And then uh... Oblivion came along. Its lore wasn't much more impressive than WoW's. :shrug:

Blue spacegoats in a spaceship.

That is all.

In recent news, Ipwnurfacelawl has attained the Frostmourne. His guild, the "Ultamite Pwnars" have commented: "World first"

I think that's enough... Minus all the stuff that happened before, and a small preview of what will happen.

TES, at least, didnt have such major changes. At least, as far as I know, which isn't much. But they can actually justify it. Ans TES lore is more in depth. WoW lore is... Well, it's cartoony.

TES has "more" Lore.

WoW has Lore, it does indeed have books in game (wander into Stormwind keep some day, or the inn in Gadgetzan), they are, however somewhat simplistic and quite dry and dull. Unlike Morrowind where many of the books are actually worth reading.

The difference between Warcraft and TES lore is mainly one of depth, not quantity. TES lore is alot more subjective, Warcraft Devs (I think it was Chris Metzen) have actually stated that "Good" and "Evil" are real things in Warcraft, and while the Horde aren't just gribbly monsters that some people take them to be (which is refreshing from a fantasy game), it's not really in the league that TES is in.

In fairness my love of WoW comes from being an evil midget with a steampunk helicopter, so as a Gnome I could probably write my racial backstory on one side of A4 and have space left-over. Compare this to my favourite TES races the Kajiit and Bretons.. well, you get my point.

Interestingly WoW and TES are rare amongst RPGs as they have items that are essentially illeagal Narcotics in game, useable by players. Namely, Skooma and Bloodthistle.

Some-days im in the mood for some cartoony fun so I play warcraft, sometimes I want my games with a bit of depth... so I play, currently, Morrowind.

And it's Private Ipwnsuhard who got Frostmourne and is now the Lich King.

40k is the one that shines IMO. Fantasy races in the sci-fi setting is just a cool idea, and they pull it off managing to mix a gothic gritty feel with less serious flashy elements. Moorcockian Chaos Gods help a lot too.

Well, the Warcraft devs doesn't have the balls to make a semi-god a rapist and holding his people hostage with a frikkin moon!
And noone in the Warcraft universe has such a [censored] mask as Dagoth Ur.
And, TES skipped dwarfs and went with dwemer instead. Good choise.

And, sorry if any of the above info is wrong. It's just things I recall reading.

I agree with you there. 40k does have some good lore. No where near as in-depth as TES's but its, to qoute you, "gothic and gritty" which I love. Also Warcrft does indeed have lore but it is not as good, by far, as TES lore.

Warcraft has a lot of lore, and it goes into more depth than "Night elves live at one with nature." The Draenei aren't as simplistic as "space goats on a spaceship," and The Exodar wasn't even theirs. Blood elves are more akin to Melnibon?an heroin addicts than Tolkienesque high elves (although they started that way). There's history that drives why things are as they are in the current time in Azeroth, why the Burning Legion exists as it does, and why the dragons, elementals, etc are how they are.

It's not as deep, esoteric, or mindwarping as TES lore, but that's not a bad thing.

WoW and TES are two totally different things. Sure, they both have lore. Great lore. WarCraft did have lore before Reign of Chaos, a very extensive one in fact.

Comparing TES and WoW is pointless.

I sometimes stumble up to my best friend/cousin's apartment after a long day at the office for drinks and find the sorry [censored] just a'clickin' away at this Morrowind-type graphic game called "War of Warcraft". When asked about the background story, he simply said, "I'm in the Horde. We hate the Alliance."

When I asked why, he said, "Doesn't matter."

"Is there any lore behind this?", I asked puzzled.

"They say there is, but I don't give a [censored] about it. It doesn't help play the game."

When I showed him the 36 Lessons of Vivec, the Monomyth and the Mysterium Xarxes Commentaries while simultaneously attempting to demonstrate how it could infuse the game with more maturity and mood, he said, "[censored] that. I ain't got time for all that."

None of his buddies in his "Vent" lil headset seem to give a flying [censored] about a storyline either. So, I must state that, although I have never in my life played WoW for one single second, it has already been shown to me to be a loreless, sub-graphic past time that is devoid of intellectual exercise save for shouting battle commands over the internet as "gear" is lecherously sought after and "guilds" rise and fall without substance or whim.

A waste, it appears to me. PRAISE JULIANOS!!


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

He's right. Given the origin of Warcraft, no one really asked or cared why the Horde and the Alliance hated each other.

Besides, it's already acknowledged Blizzard's strength doesn't lie in lore. They make great games.

I know some basic Warcraft lore. Like the orcs comming from outlands and such. But I never found it's lore very intresting.

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/ Here's some site that seems to be Warcrafts equality to the imperial library. - Nvm, it was not what I thought it was.

That's pretty well laid out. In Warcraft, the orcs were forced to attack the humans by demon lords to help capture Azeroth. After being released from their blood rage, they and the alliance are still at odds due to distrust. The Horde tried making peace, and the Alliance screwed it all up by still being suspicious and attacking them.

In short: Your friend is a fool, Word Merchant. Don't listen to him, listen to a player of the Warcraft series, not WoW. I doubt he even listened to what the cutscenes said.

It is. I just don't give a flying [censored]. Before that, orcs invade from dark portal. Humans fight orcs back. The Burning Horde I doubt even existed in the first two games.

Warcraft was basically like a chess game with a few unique spells by its priests.

Even when Warcraft III showed up, I still didn't give a flying [censored] about the story.

*sigh*
The saddest thing about that is that there ARE some rather complex reasons in WC lore about why the Alliance and Horde came to hate each other. :sadvaultboy:

Because Demons forced the orcs to attack humans even though they're actually nice guys?

The Horde and the alliance don't hate each other at all.

Actually they formed an alliance during the second war against the Burning Legion.
Some fanatic orders from both sides (battle around Theramore vs. Burning Blades) continued to fight each other after the basic borders were settled (and still do so until today). Jaina earned some hatred by solving this matters with Thrall directly instead of just shetting (? dunno word) more blood. That's the reason why she "betrayed" her father. The leaders however are not happy with them and the Burning Blades are hunted inside the Horde, rumors say they also pact with lesser demons. (One of the very first quests after meeting THE WARCHIEF could tell you all this.)

You cannot attack the other faction on PvE servers.

About orcs' invasion in Azeroth: There is basically two large opinions.
1) The orcs homeplanet was basically destroyed (wether or not the burning legion was involved here is unkown, as far as I know). Fact, there was not enough "food" for everyone. So Medivh led them to Azeroth, being the last warden and "father of orcs". He wanted them to live in peace but humans attacked, since they feared the ugly beasts.
2) Sargeras already took control of Medivh (In the epic battle between Aegwyn and Sargeras, the latter managed to transfer his spirit into her unborn child upon death) and forced him to open the Dark Portal to weaken the humans.

I think the first explanation is the right one, since Sargeras wouldn't gain anything from "weakening" the humans at all and his kind does not do anything without benefit for himself.

And? That doesn't make Warcraft have no/bad lore. That makes you not interested in that lore. The same can be done to any TES game.

And yes, the Burning Legion existed in the original Warcraft, although as a framework with (as far as I recall) only Sargeras ever being mentioned.

Caterina: What about Proudmoore? He caused problems too, and the other smaller Alliance settlements attack the Horde too. Overall, I'd say Jaina is alone in her want to be neutral with the Horde, everyone else is just too caught up in revenge.