I'm sorry--- I just dont see how the two compare in any useful way.


It's like comparing the works of Poe with "http://www.rarebookschool.org/2005/exhibitions/dikeandjane.shtml"


Both are "Classics", but for WILDLY different reasons.

We of the TES lore species effectively skipped that grade. We is reel smart yew no.



So he will bamboozle us with his 8 and 1/2 paragraphs of background story?

*ahem* Let me summarize.

You are born. You look like this. You can do this. Now kill EVERY[censored]THING YOU SEE! (Yes, I mean mug it, kill it, and trade what you acquired by larceny/robbery.)

___TWM

I could tell you an entire history behind that dimensional portal, and it wasn't a dimensional portal in the first place, just a portal. The planet it led to was in the same universe as Azeroth.

That and everything you said was totally wrong, but whatever.

Oblivion wasn't much better in that respect. "Oh him? He's some mongrel thing as what we dont know where he came from. Probably came out of a Guar for all we know. But he's the champion of cyrrodiil now!"


That and its CONSTANT conversations of how terrible the mudcrabs are. :yuck:

Oblivion was a major disappointment. Morrowind was stellar in the amount of hidden mystery it presented in a plainly wrapped package.





Let's see here...

The dark portal. First appearance: Warcraft II, Dark Portal, IIRC.

Backstory: Magical doorway created by mediv (who is enigmatic, and has little background-- where did he learn to make such portals in the first place? where was he born? where and when did he die? What country was he from?), not originally intended to allow demonic hosts and their underlings (orcs at the time) to invade, but it ends up being used for that purpose, for reasons that are not well explained.


So, by all means, elaborate.

Isn't TES Lore the something akin to the platonic Highest Form? Against which we criticize anything and everything given enough time.

Wait, you're our foremost linguist? When did that happen? I didn't know we had linguists. I mean, other than Gez in real life.

But this is terrible. It means we're probably going to be treated to reams of the soap opera that is Warcraft lore, all to explain why the Burning Legion destroyed the Orcish homeland forcing the Orcs to destroy the human homeland and how a war destroyed the Dranei homeland and how the high elven homeland was destroyed by the horde and why there was a war that started another war and that's why there's war between the waawawawaa.

It is called Warcraft, one can expect wars. Besides, wars make for interesting excuses for strategy games.

What's Barbra Walters got to do with anything? /joke


I find it rather 'Contrived' that warcraft's lore seems to consider "Going to war" a solution to internal decay problems like that. War cannot be maintained without infrastructure. Guerrilla raids perhaps-- but NOT war.

War is organized, coordinated, and requires lines of supply, and tactical maneuvering. These things dont come from a desolated region, since the infrastructure to support it simply does not exist. There is a reason why they call it a "War Machine."

Yet another example of a WoW player being confused. Can't help what is written, but its clearly wrong.

Did you read my post where I said "We is reel smart yew no?" No, I cannot make that claim to fame. :shrug:

Neither can I. I'm just a well thinking holder of overly generalist knowledge. (Kinda like the contents of an encyclopedia. Just enough to be interesting, but not enough real meat to hold a really deep conversation. (there ARE a few exceptions to this though... I try to deepen my reservoir as much as I can.)




In this case, I'd say you used a word that was bigger, and more sophisticated than they are used to, and concluded you must be a linguist.

Warcraft, much like the Elder Scrolls, elaborates later on some things in later games. The Dark Portal was opened by Medivh, who indeed was a bit vaguely defined, to the Orc homeworld Draenor. Draenor was the homeland of the Orcs and Ogres, with the Draenei being only immigrants to the planet. The Orcs had been corrupted by the demon lord Kil'Jaedin to act as shock troops for the initial invasion of Azeroth. The Draenei were used as fodder to test the orcs to see if they were worth it. Some of the Draenei loaded up on Tempest Keep, the Naaru's dimensional ship (the Draeni then wandered around for a while until they came upon Azeroth). Ner'Zhul destroyed Draenor when he opened so many portals the planet was torn apart. From then on it was known as Outland. Some Draenei that were still on the planet became corrupted by the dark energies, although not all of them are hostile to people, such as Akama's band who aid the Blood Elves to kill a demon lord and free part of their lands.

And that's just a summary.

Yeah, I said "HUZZAH!"

Drove 'em bat[censored].


___TWM

ps: (and I'm very cunning as well. :frog: :rofl:)

The reason why the demons are the bad guys is not rationally explained. Even biblical demons have a back story, for why they are evil, and turned against God.

Still does not explain where Medivh learned how to make portals, nor why he built one.


The whole thing STINKS of a poorly thought out plot, that was fleshed up after the fact.

"Pansy ass...?" :stare:

Still. Could be fun. As long as everyone behaves and keeps the discussion civil. If worse comes to worst, we always have Dogsbody & Co.

What are y'all all preparing for anyway?

An invasion from Azeroth or something?

Pansy ass is a remarkable apt description.

"Oooh, they care about academic integrity- oohh. Isn't that adorable?"

Until Albides gets rude, that is.

We're preparing for either the post limit bell to ring.....

Or we're going to stare blankly at the coming swarm, much like buffet workers look when they see about three busloads of "special" people coming to "eat" (read: throw food everywhere and wait on praise). :blink:

Ah, how "special" are those Blizzard people?

___TWM

Medivh was possessed by the spirit of the Titan, Sargeras. Sargeras hates the world because he was initially chosen to be it's protector. He came to hate the world as he saw it as naturally corrupt, and that order and law as a facade trying to cover up the true nature of the world. He set out to destroy all order to reveal what he saw as the true face of the universe.

TONS more info on the two can be found http://www.wowwiki.com/Medivh#Birth and http://www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras

I'm sorry, but as a result of a series of miscommunication errors in which the gnomes that transport messages through the computer screen suddenly became corrupted by Azmaril, an incorporeal alien from another dimension fleeing a war, the leader of my nation received some text saying that the leader of your nation actually has the potent magical artifact, the Dread Pelvic Bone of Mazinash, and we are now in a state of war.

In any case, this is background detail, not new strategy game material.

Guys, WoW forums are a vast wasteland. Nobody will care.

Does not explain why the demons are evil though. Again, It stinks of the equivilent ofhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

I wont try to defend TES's apologetics-- It has been retconned several times, and pretty much all of us are unhappy about that. Want to see a brawl break out? Ask why Cyrrodiil ISNT a jungle.


Basically, a piss poor story gets written, which gives a vague excuse as to WHY orcs and humans are fighting each other with sticks---- Then later, when people start asking questions, the back story gets written AFTER the fact. This is not how a good narrative and high fantasy are written.


The history is written FIRST, and the story is fitted to the structure of the world.

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!

I just called my cousin and said, "well, god[censored], where's your posse, you swine!"

"[Censored] off, I'm raidin'", he said.

*sigh*

Bunch 'o double clickin', cheese eatin' surrender-monkey, if ya ask me.


___TWM

A single sentence is a retcon in TES lore.

Jah, is that good or bad then?

Do you write? Because this is certainly how good narrative and story is written. But it is a form of brainstorming, and can't be relied upon when there is more than one creator, or if a cohesive setting is desired.

I think it fits perfectly fine and is well written. Your loss, I suppose.

"Once the greatest warrior in the entire Pantheon of Titans, Sargeras is now completely insane and devoted to the pursuit of absolute destruction. Initially, the Titans elected him to be their primary defense against the demon races, and he valiantly fought against the dark beings for several millennia. However, after witnessing the boundless depths of the demons' evil and hate, Sargeras began to despair of his task and gradually slipped into a brooding depression. He was unable to comprehend the nature of such pure evil, and came to blame the Titans for what he considered to be their flawed pursuit of a false order. Sargeras concluded that chaos and depravity were the only true forces in the universe and angrily exiled himself from the ranks of the Titans forever."

It seemed to Sargeras that order was the minority in the universe, and that chaos was the true nature.