same to you bounce.

i wasn't aware that it was announced that it would be one version. did they give a reason for it? well, whether or not id decided this or zeni/beth it isn't ideal...although i probably never would have ventured into the secret levels anyway. to get back to your original comment, i'm not sure how custom WADs work in any sort of technical sense (i know how to download and run them, thats it) but i find it hard to believe that the edit will be a problem for long, knowing how passionate that community can be. just curious though, the removal of the flags, paintings, etc. results in what? like i said i have no experience behind the scenes.

ahhhhhhh this is disappointing! i can see what you're saying but i thought they mixed together so well in doom 3, but to each his own. i could've done without the cutscenes, though. story through pda would be perfect, that way its not forced on you. but what set-pieces were you talking about?

misunderstood you again, i svck. thought you were talking about innovating within their comfort zone.

id in 2012 if romero had never been gone from id would be interesting to look at in a crystal ball... but if i were able to change whatever happened with romero/carmack knowing how things are going now but not knowing what might happen if romero had stuck around - looking at romero's post id software work - i probably wouldn't take the chance. what would you do?

oh, no doubt that this is their 'golden era' i agree completely. i am, however, very optimistic about the current team. for the first time in way too long, id seems to be working closely together in-house with a generally consistent group of people (albeit much larger). 2 projects released within a year: rage as far as i know was pretty rough getting the team organized, which explains the feeling that it was incomplete. doom 3 bfg made some missteps in ideas but it was completed efficiently and (on ps3) is very close to perfect aside from maybe 3 random stutters over the 6 hours i've played. great idea on id's part for getting everyone working on the old dooms before working on doom 4. this, i feel is another good sign. im hoping over these 2 projects, id has figured out a system that works, and that doom 4 will live up to the name doom.

also maybe now they can stop handing games off to raven. (raven's games haven't been bad at all, just not up to par with id when id decides to actually make a game)

Dam! I agree with both BouncyTEM AND foxygutmeir!... What should I do?... bah I'll just continue reading this.

No, i meant the people coming here playing the BFG edition as their first experience of Doom at all. Those who werent around in the 90s when gaming was actually good

nah you should join in, im loving this. i dont often get to talk about id, and have certainly never been able to get someone else's input from a different perspective to such a degree

ahh okay, sorry professor. ;]
i feel bad for those who dont have memories of growing up with doom. playing it now, after playing all the games it has influenced... just can't be the same.

Those who have never touched the original Dooms should purchase it on Steam for $10 each and use a source port such as ZDoom or Zandronum and not this eviscerated version of the IWADs in the BFG Edition.

And they BETTER not make those butchered versions to replace the originals on Steam! I will be a very, very angry gamer if they do!

Atleast those old games CAN still be played on modern computers, if not, just think of the chip on our shoulders we would have

woah $10 sounds kinda steep. i remember like 9 years ago you could buy a combo back at walmart for about that much. not saying they're not worth the cash, im just surprised

It's worth it since there are TONS of addons in varying degrees of complexity. See Doomworld.com if you have never seen what you can do with the game because it's so easy to mod.

Lol, you're better off buying the doom pack complete for $35 than to buy this for $30.

The doom pack complete has final doom, master levels, the SS guards as enemies, uh, Doom 1 and Doom 2 MULTIPLAYER (if you know how to get IPX emulation working through dosbox, or just use a source port), what else, and the stuff that the original has over the BFG edition.

Here's my take on it.

It is way worth it on the PS3. The PS3 version of Doom and Doom 2 is neutered compared to the original PC version, but since the only comparison is with Doom on the PS1, I say it is worth it, as I don't have to do the whole 2 PS1, 2 TV, 2 games, and only 2 players just to play multiplayer. I can now play 4 players on the same TV, and on 1 PS3. So this is the best version.

It is meh, maybe worth it on the 360, well technically, those who already bought the XBLA doom and doom 2 are sort of ripped off, since they are sort of paying for those 2 games again. The only thing that is worth it is the Doom 3 portion of the package, as it has better graphics than the original xbox version, although with no co-op.

The PC version would be the biggest ripoff, and is only used for those who wants to use the VR headset. Since all 3 versions are neutered anyway, the PC has it the worst because it has something to compare with. All they had to do was make a multiplayer front end, or just make their own source port. When you load Doom or Doom 2 from the main screen, it would run single player. That single player menu would have Multiplayer on it. If you select multiplayer, it should have quit the game, and loaded up a front end. The old dos versions used setup.exe, and then DM.exe, then there was Doom 95, and some other unofficial front ends. That's all they needed to do, rather than say, "sorry PC guys, Doom 1 and Doom 2 multiplayer".

Normally, I would buy all 3 versions of id games, but this time, as with Rage, I only bought the PS3 version. I already have the steam versions of Doom and Doom 2, and a the original boxed copy for PC, and I have the original xbox version of Doom 3, that I could run on my 360, and I also have the Doom and Doom 2 that I bought off XBLA, and as such, the only thing that hasn't loaded any doom was my PS3. So that is the only logical version I should get.

At least 2 of 3 systems I have plugged in would have the SS guards, while the PS3 is left with the neutered version.

Ah, never mind, i was mistaken.

Guys look, the original Doom's (All of them) are much better on the PC than the BFG edition. I don't understand why NO ONE seems to get that the BFG edition is MADE for CONSOLE.....The graphics on Doom 3 look AMAZING on my 52 inch 1080P HDTV...... When I want to play Doom on my PC I load Zdaemon http://zdaemon.org/ where you can rock out to Doom 2 on DEDICATED servers.....

ZDaemon is meh and mostly based on the ancient ZDoom 1.2.x codebase, http://www.zdoom.org and http://www.zandronum.com are far superior in my opinion (lots of playtime invested in both and Zandronum's predecessor Skulltag)

It it was meant for console kiddies, why the hell was it also released for PC as well, despite being butchered? We are complaining because we are given a product that is not satisfactory to us, despite the originals were just fine the way they were all those years ago.

That's a nice way to wrap up any arguments.

Yes, be happy console kids, you get Doom3 now, virtually identical to the original PC release.
But that's all id had to do, was re-release Doom3 for consoles, not try to do any "BFG Edition" package and release for PC as well.

For the people who already on Doom3 on PC, they could've just been a great company and released the improved shadow code and the VR code as a patch, or a very cheap DLC. That's all they had to do. Not release an inferior PC version.

I thought releasing it for PC was a huge waste anyway. Could have saved a ton of cash if they made it console only, and released No Rest for the Living as an expansion for people who already own Doom 2, on steam, and also release the Lost missions as an expansion pack for people who already own doom 3.

The only reason why I bought this is that my PS3 hasn't even run a Doom game, well maybe Doom for PS1, but that's the only game that it ran. My PC could run all the dooms they have, and my xbox 360 could run the dooms from the original xbox, as well as the XBLA version of doom and doom 2. So in reality, this is really only for the PS3, while the 360 guys only have it for the Doom 3 portion, and not the Doom and Doom 2 portions.

Do you know what the stupid part is? Not including multiplayer for Doom and Doom 2 on the PC version. Even the steam version has this problem by not including critical files such as

Setup.exe
Ipxsetup.exe
Sersetup.exe
DM.exe

There are others, but I forgot what they were. The funny thing there was that Heretic and Hexen both had those files for their respective games, but Doom and Doom 2 doesn't?

What I did to get those files was to download the shareware version of doom, and copy those files into the Ultimate Doom and Doom II. That way, you can play multiplayer the way it was meant to be played back in the 90's. I used IPX emulation through dosbox, because it gives the original experience. Here, you can't play Thy Flesh Consumed levels. In order to do so, is that you have to buy Heretic off steam, and copy DM.dat and DM.exe to the doom folder, and change the names of the levels, so that "the docks" becomes "hangar" etc, and remove the levels corresponding to episode 5, because there isn't a 5th episode in Doom, and you have to tell it that it is looking for doom.exe, and not heretic.exe. Before you say "hey it doesn't work", I am referring to the steam versions of Doom and Doom 2, which is the versions you should have been getting, and rather than buying this, you should have bought the Doom Pack Complete, if you are looking to buy the PC version. If you want to experience the lost missions, buying it on console is the best way to do it. This is really for people who own windows 9 or something, or any operating system that can't run dosbox, and can't run any doom source port, and can't run the original doom 3.

I feel sorry for the new guys to the franchise. They play this neutered version, and I am talking about the classic dooms, while the old school people played it the way ti was meant to be played, and I'm a keyboard only type of player. No mouse.

By the way, what are the controls for classic doom in the PC version of the BFG edition?

I have to say this, and this is important, and maybe unrelated, but it is important nonetheless. If you have to download a pirated copy of the game to make the legitimate copy of the game work, or if the pirated copy is more compatible with your system than the legitimate copy, then there is something really wrong with the game.

for the info.

"Glory" is the reason why Nazi symbolism is banned over here.
Our politicians think that Adolf's "glorious Nazi showbiz" is still contagious.

Strangely enough, it's only political propaganda and games that get censored. Movies have always been untouched.
Neither "Where Eagles Dare" nor "Raiders of the lost Ark" are censored in that respect although both movies must have been the greatest influence on Woflenstein 3D.

I belive this censorship has to do with a license agreement since bethesda publishes doom games and activision publishes wolfenstine. I mean they even changed the music from the wolf levels what the point in that since most of the riff from doom one and 2 are ripped from other popular heavy metal songs. mabey they didnt get permission from activison to release the secret wolf levels.

It's dissapointing that they were not up front about the censorship.

It's like when "Ninja Gaiden" was reelased on the original XBox.

I wondered what I was doing wrong as I could never figure out how to decapitate my enemies.

It turns out that Germany objected to the dismemberment of human characters... so Team Ninja created a Censored version that would be acceptable in Germany... and made this their release for ALL of Europe!

So I bought "Ninja Gaiden" not realising I was getting a watered down version of the original.

I can live with Bethesda censoring the "Wolfenstein" level but I would have preferred to know about it before I'd actually paid money for the product.

It's a dissapointment for those fond of the original.

I would like to see Consumer Laws changed so that Companies MUST tell you if you're not getting what they're advertising.

But of course this is an Internet Forum so nobody is going to change the law here.

I'll have to write the Queen.

Az

It's BS, Id *created* the game thus it is NOT Cashavision-letsmilkaseriesdry.

You know that most musicians don't own the rights to their own music?
If you're a creator of something doesn't mean you have the rights to use it. Sounds strange but is a common problem for all creative people.
I'd love to know who owns the copyrights/trademarks for Doom/Wolfenstein. Especially after id's been bought by Zenimax.

Is that so? I never heard of that. Ninja Gaiden was released while japanese games where more violent then the versions sold in the rest of the world.
A game called "MakenX" on Sega Dreamcast comes to mind.
The japanese original had blood decals on the walls and was filled to the roof with Nazi symbolism. The worldwide release including the US release was heavily censored.
But this didn't have anything to do with the influence of german censors. The company censored the game based on their own decision to avoid problems and therefore costs involved with recalls.

Today it's the other way around. Japan censors games more heavily than even germany does. And Australia also suffers from this.



As you're obviously british, there shouldn't be any need to write to the Queen.
As a longtime witness of censorship of any kind in any place in the world, i noticed that at this point in time, the British BBFC doesn't seem to censor anything at all.
In fact, your rating system is more liberal than the US system.
Especially when it comes to movies. Lots of movies which are released "unrated" in the US (which leads to problems in advertising) get a 18 or even 15 rating in the UK.
But as you might know, this wasn't always the case. The "video nasties" in the early 80 comes to minde when the BBFC cenosred movies as heavily as Germany's censors did.

Btw.: Rage is rated "15" in the UK, "M" in the US and "18" in Germany. All versions are uncut yet the british version has the lowest rating.

The Brits are lucky people at the moment...

Well with regards to "Ninja Gaiden" when they released the "Hurricaine Packs" on XBox LIVE this restored the game to it's original format, meaning that we all got to chop heads off to our heart's content.

As far as Censorship in the UK goes it's less liberal than you think.

The UK has censored episodes of "Star Trek" and "Babylon 5" and for a long time "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" had to be called "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" because the word "Ninja" was considered to be too violent.

Like I mentioned above I would prefer to be told if something is censored, rather than be given something under false pretence.

Az

You're talking about the past, i was referring to now. I know that British censors had a problem with everything that was related to ninjas and their "tools".
This also affected the usage of nunchucks and shuriken in japanese fighting games in the 90s and lead to respective ratings or censoring.

Censoring of TV shows is common everywhere in the world including the US for example.
Movies on US TV are usually less graphic in terms of violence than their respective theatrical releases and swear words are beeped out.
The latter you won't find in Germany.

Nevertheless, the DVD movie and game releases in the UK at this point in time are usually uncut or less cut and the ratings lower than in most other countries in the world.

My point is, that you belong to a minority of people now which, at this moment, is rarely affected by censorship.
Most other countries, with the longtime exception of all the Benelux states, censor content in some way.
It's not just Germany. It's just that Germany is the most prominent example since german consumers are the ones who are complaining permanently.
Lots of other countries are subjected to censorship and don't even now it.

I just wanted to show the business aspect of releasing games worldwide. Giving every country a different version that goes to the limits of the local laws is unprofitable.
That's why most game companies try to release a single version of a game that can be sold worldwide without any major complaints.
Especially when it comes to bonus content (Doom II's secret levels in this case) that just makes up a very small percentage of the complete package.


I Totally agree with you on that aspect. The german version is sold with the label "uncut" on the box which is definitely untrue.

Btw.: To all american Doom fans who are complaining about censoring of Doom II in the BFG release:
Are you aware of the fact, that even the original Dos Doom I release back in the '93 was censored by patching to a higher version shortly after and that this censored version is the only one available now?
I guess not...

One very important detail is never mentioned here: It's obviously not a developer, but a publisher decision to alter / take out certain elements of a game that could cause legal trouble in a market, to get one internationally compatible version of said game that can be distributed everywhere, without restriction. Cheaper and more efficient than having to produce, ship and handle a special "German" version that's only made special by missing some content.
Such insight does not bring back the Nazis sprites of course, but it should be clear that this was not decided by id software - I'm not even sure if the whole BFG edition was their idea, just like the recent re-release of Quake IV in Europe. It's a Bethesda thing.