Yeah, because they kept getting killed by bandits, wild life, and diseases.

Taking over, and keeping Black Marsh is the equivalent of Nightmare Mode in Tamriel.

Brunwulf admits he doesn't have the materials to fix up the Grey Quarter, and can't let the Argonians into the city because it would cause too much unrest. So it's not just gameplay convenience. He admits that he can't do any more than Ulfric did. He's just paying lip service- a good politician, maybe, but a poor leader in wartime, that's for sure. It won't help the Dunmer or anyone else if materials that should be used to prepare for war are used for prettying up the neighborhood, as nice as that would be. And what happens in Windhelm in a year or two's time when people realize all his promises were empty? Ulfric is blunter, but smarter.

And there's no way to know that ulfric wouldn't do the same if the war wasn't on. He does outright tell jorleif that he can't deal with the grey quarter right now because of the war.

Just remember, racism in medieval = discrimination against nationalities in 21st century

TES series is set in a period closer to our medieval than 21st century(big surprise). But players keep using 21st century mindset to judge what's happening in Skyrim.
Your race is pretty much equal to your nationality in medieval. Baring a foreign race from entering your country in that period is just like stoping(or setting standards) the people of another country to go to your country nowadays.

Racism, i.e. treating race A better than race B is also completely normal in Skyrim or Medieval(just like granting travel visa to citizens of country A but not those of country B is completely fine in 21st century).

Really? When ever I go to the Palace of Kings, Galmar keeps on asking Ulfric what he is going to do about Whiterun. One downside of putting off the Civil War quests until a latter date.

My Argonian doesn't care much for either side, only if it effects his bottom line. The Stormcloaks taking over would probably be better for him since he basically thrives off of chaos and organized crime which would persist more freely under Stormcloak rule. Sure, they may be racists but Argonians don't care much for the other races anyway, only to better their own well being. Besides, Skyrim is much too cold for Argonians to be living there on a regular basis anyway, just go there to take whatever resources we can and go back to black marsh with a nice sack of gold. Let the Empire and Stormcloaks kill each other.

Oh, I'm going to play it.. it appears from most comments in this thread that it's the more logical choice now. I only played Stormcloak because my feelings as a player, but from an Argonian point of view.. maybe I was on the wrong side.


Alright alright.. forgive me. It's just that I never liked the Dumner after reading what they did to the Argonians and I can't ever bring myself to play anything other than an Argonian. Forget what I said, and I'll pick someone else for my hit list Fair enough?


Well, I think it's mostly because Black Marsh is a dangerous territory and it's always been like that. Even Tiber Septim didn't go into it, he just conquered the borders and that's it.

And used his Giant Robot.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium

Ulfric had two decades before the Civil War to do some work on the Gray Quarter so that excuse doesn't fly, and the fact remains it was Ulfric's degree that barred the Argonians at the docks from the city. It was the law under Ulfric that the Dunmer weren't allowed to live outside the grey quarter. Even the successful Dunmer who owns his own farm with Nord employees has to live in the slums because he's a dark elf.

Actually it was peacefully incorporated into the Empire.

So his forces are doing nothing before that battle? Just because they aren't fighting major battles doesn't mean there aren't minor skirmishes. Not to mention all the work that goes into supporting armies.


Scuse me, do you have a source on when Ulfric got out of prison?

Ulfric helped end the Marakath incident which was after the Great War.

Not only was he not a jarl at this time but he was subsequently imprisoned by the empire for breaking the WGC.

According to Ulfric he became Jarl after returning home from the Great War. And he wasn't subsequently imprisoned after the Marakath incident.
Care to make anything else up.

He was in prison. The rebellion started after his release. And it's been the policy that the Dunmer live in the Grey Quarter since Vvardenfell- had nothing to do with Ulfric. It was probably a similar deal as that made in the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/decree-monument. The Nord jarl isn't supposed to interfere with Dunmer affairs- probably something they insisted on as much as the Nords, knowing how the Dunmer are.

After having already been forcefully pacified by the Cyrodiilic Empire in the 2nd era, and not without suffering from the empire's attempt to collectivize agriculture and impose imperial trade customs.

LOL No, actually. You might want to tone it down a bit, especially since you don't know jack about what you're talking about. The Markarth Incident happened the year after the WGC was signed. Ulfric is imprisoned, and his father dies while he's in prison. He talks about having to send his father's eulogy by letter... "such is the love of Titus Mede for his subjects"... and eventually coming home to a city "at one with my grief and anger." We don't know how long this was prior to game time, I would guess 3-5 years, but since his release he's been involved in his rebellion.

I wasn't doubting you. I'm just referring to the fact I have never heard that piece of dialogue, due to me putting off the Civil War quests. In both Castle Dour and the Palace of Kings, the scripted dialogue repeats until you talk to either leader about joining. Thing is, not much reason to go Dour, more reason to to go the Palace of Kings, hence why I heard that dialogue so often.

Yeah both of em restart every single time you enter if you haven't done anything. Must have misinterpretted your statement there.

Baring Dunmer from living outside the Grey Quarter would be interfering. Making a decree (which was a personal act of Ulfric) that the Argonians are banished to the docks is a different issue but and important one for Argonians picking a side in the Civil War.

Nope don't know where your getting the pacified, like Morrowind it was incorporated peacefully by treaty.

It's fine

It's not interfering. Ulfric's not going to evict his own people so another group can move in. That's ridiculous.

As for the second, read "The Argonian Account"

They cut down some of the Hist? Wow, that's low.

Well, I'll go ahead and do the Imperial Legion and see how it goes.. I'll talk to the Argonians in Windhelm soon and see how the rest of them feel. I've only ever done the Legion once but I ended up not doing the ending and reloaded an earlier save.. so I'll do the ending this time. This will be the first time I've ever done the Imperial Legion to the end.

@Kalamari
Not sure if you saw my earlier quote in regards to your post, but as a favor to you.. I'll replace that Dumner and put someone else on my hit list should I choose to power up a particular Daedric artifact.

^ Another reason they had it coming.. at least one Argonian does say though, that he wishes the Nords, Dumners and Argonians in Windhelm all got along better. I wish we could actually see that happen too

Because that argonian is a pirate. No one else in solitude will help him because they suspect he's with them. Thats why he needed the player. That's what Ahtar was talking about, or how I interpreted it. They knew he was up to no good.

He doesn't have to evict his own people for dumner to move. If that were the case then he'd have to have kicked everyone out o the snow quarter before the dunmer moved in and it was named gray-quarter (a racial slur by the way). The dunmer and argonians (except the player) literally aren't allowed to move into the rest of windhelm even if a house went vacant.

Exactly you'd think the Dunmer with his successful farm and Employees could have afforded a house outside the Slums. And as the Argonians were banished to the docks by Ulfric's decree that implies the lizards had a place inside the city before that happened.