The problem arises when the tank does more damage than the dps. Very few current balanced games have tanks out damaging dps though tanks do solo better in this game the different is substantial. Destruction is pure crap cuz it does too little damage and requires too much mana.

In balanced games like league of legends/ect the spell casters like ryze to so much burst damage but have very little life while the tanks like malphite do little damage but survive to much better. The tanks here do more dps, burst damage, and tank much better. This is the problem I"m emphasizing.

This isnt an mmo, there are no roles. It's just you and you and your bag of tricks to get through the obstacles in the game

I just focus on playing whats fun for me. I don't care if I'm doing as much damage as a warrior or not, especially considering I can sneak into a dark corner and take out a warrior npc with 1-3 sneak bonus arrows without them ever locating me most of the time. It's just a different style of play and all I'm saying is that my rogue is having little trouble surviving as long as I play to my characters strength...which is stealth and ranged combat.

All characters move the same speed and the warrior takes out enemies faster than stealth and mage anyways so it's not slow at all. Stealth chars aren't really underpowered anyways imo they are inbetween. Mages are the most underpowered. If they don't find in straight combat with destruction they either need to conjure creatures which take a lot of mana, bring lydia, abuse shouts just to survive, or use illusion which doesn't even take care of the enemy unless there are two and you can force them to fight.

It's also not too easy to find good spellstomes for mages but warriors can smith insanely good items to benefit themselves. Maybe mages who specialize in conjuring and alteration can excel in the game like warriors in close combat but then you might as well just be a warrior unless you want to wait till late game once you get the mastery spells and that's if you can find the master spell tomes.

This is what it comes down to. Warrior is a simplistic playstyle that requires little effort. If that's what you want, play a warrior. Stealth or mage is going to be more complex and involved pretty much by definition. You want all characters to be equally brainless to play. I do not. Let's leave it at that.

I'm doing just fine as a mage. They don't need to be patched.

so you want a tanky mage that only cast spells and wears pure cloth armor

makes sense

Dont forget he can only use destruction though, no alteration for protection, no summoning because it takes too much mana

I play pure mage, Dual Fire (The first fire spell you start with) with robes and a hood, no boots or gloves. I've yet to die on normal against mainly melee forces and the odd mage/warrior and archer/warrior groups. Without applying any skill points into anything at all.

It's not that I want the game to be brainless but there are certain parts of quests I can easily do with a warrior but if I'm a mage it'll be near impossible or I'll struggle greatly and have to turn down the difficulty. If you really want a challenge just turn the difficulty up even as a warrior you'll have trouble. Mages should at least be able to spam their magic consistently instead of having to run around when their mana runs out.

Warriors keep fighting without stamina and a 2h weapon is still very strong without stamina. Mages have nothing without mana and even that runs out very quickly. If anything, patch the game so mages can use spells for longer to at least be able to defeat 1 or 2 guys with destruction magic without using a full bar or more of mana. I don't even care if mages do less dps or damage than tanks, they should at least be able to use their magic and not be afraid to keep running without mana. Or maybe increase the range of spells so mages don't have to go head to head and can nuke.

Why play a mage? cuz it's fun to spam different spells or nuke enemies. If you can't even do that with a mage it's not even worth it and more fun as a warrior.

From the video, the mage looked like the most powerful by far.

cuz I was using master level conjured creatures and wasn't being targeted and the kamahamaha move looks cool. If I didn't hack the master level spells I would have no chance at all and in a normal game I'd struggle till I got those spells as a pure mage for sure. I didn't record the 5 times I got owned using destruction magic alone or illusion magic before that and there were half as many guards at night. I tried using just wall of flames/ice/lighting which is how I'd play most of the game as a full mage one time too and got completely destroyed.

I think this is a fair assessment.

My brother's mage would absolutely wreck my warrior/ranger character, and I'm 5 levels above him.

Sure. Although there is plenty of combat in the game, the same actually applies to warriors. Try doing the Thieves' Guild or Winterhold College quests with a warrior if you don't believe me.

I had the magicka problem in the very early game with my mage. I had a very "interesting" time learning what worked and what didn't. Finally, now that my guy is level 10, having enough magicka really isn't a big issue any more. (Note that this is with a Dunmer, who has no natural advantages.) Did you get the "half magicka cost" perks for the spells you were using?

In other news, ranged spells do exist, you just don't start with them.

You protest, but spamming for pretty colors really is the most brainless possible way to play a mage. Again, if you just want to walk forward with your eyes closed shooting neato fireballs and have everything die, you can. Crank down difficulty and go to town. That's not really playing like a mage in my opinion, but if it's what you truly want, you can have it.

They definitely should not rebalance the game just to enable your button-mashing playstyle. Real mages who actually used all their tools would become ridiculously overpowered.

If a warrior is more fun, then what are you complaining about? Go have fun! Not every build has to be your favorite. I'm never going to make a Destruction mage or a bound weapon Conjurer because they seem boring and stupid, but you don't see me making threads demanding a patch so I will like them more.

Lol you are killing your point here, if a warrior just used his shield and no sword he'd be [censored], if a warrior forgot his armor at home he'd be [censored], if a mage fails to use anything other than destruction he'll be [censored], isn't that obvious?? Even then if you plan to be all destruction grab a sword or dagger and feel free to dominate any warrior.

I'm starting to wonder just how much playing you've done.

The game has been out since friday. In this amount of time you've been able to make a defined mage, and a defined warrior (defined meaning they have some ability points, and their skills leveled beyond starting amounts and into a useful range). You then tested their combat efficiency in the same, or similar, combat situations. All while maintaining a halfway normal life style.

Either that, or you are using totally anecdotal evidence. And just assuming what would happen. I'm betting on the last one.

I'm having zero problems playing a pure mage on master difficulty. As a matter of fact, I was just complaining to a coworker today that I was cruising through the content too fast.

Yeah, if you're going to rush into a room and dual firespray everyone in the face, you're going to get stomped.

The key to understanding how to play a powerful mage is to understand all of the tricks you have up your sleeve. Rarely do I ever even press a destruction spell, and I can clear whole dungeons that way.

For instance, one easy early tactic is to sneak up on a group, cast fury, let them beat each other senseless, then start raising zombies until everyone is done.

To say that destruction magic isn't as powerful as maxed out 2-handed skills may be true, but that misses the number of enemies you can kill without destruction spells at all. How much damage are two or three raised zombies worth? Or a good fury spell? Or a conjured atronach?

Use all of your skills as a mage, not just fireball fireball fireball and you'll see how powerful they can be.

firebolt in the left hand axe in the right with points evenly spread in those trees, wearing half magik gear, half heavy armor, and no mods is working pretty well. its nice to be able to run around with a hybrid class and moderate gear and be able to kill dragons.

No I meant that master level tomes are much harder to get than decent armor. For a warrior all you need to do is spend 5k crafting iron daggers to level up smithing and then make some pretty dam good armor for yourself mid game. Mages get their best spells late game and even then they need lots of mana to use them. You can' just buy master level tomes in shops like you can buy the smithing material for a warrior. For most of the game mages will struggle with too little mana and crappy spells.

Full mage is amazing. Everyone has different play styles though. Not everyone likes being a mage.

So you want all skill and tact to be taken out and you just want to spam different spells and nuke enemies....sounds like you want the game to be easier. You could probably either lower the difficulty...or cheat through console commands.

Then don't freaking play a mage. Jeez -.-

Here's why mages are weak relative to physical damage classes. I'll use bows as my example. With top-level archery, maxed out archery perks, top-level smithing, maxed out smithing perks, top-level enchanting, and maxed out enchanting perks you can literally do (100% (overdraw) + 160% (double archery enchantment on bracers) + 160% (double archery enchantment on ring) +160% (double archery enchantment on pendant) +100% (smithing improvement)) damage. That's 700% of base damage if you've maxed it all out. And that's not counting alchemy, which can throw an extra 100% or so into the mix as long as you feel like chugging potions. That compares to a bonus of 50% *total* for destruction, from perks. It's not even close, scaling-wise.

The problem is that every enchant and potion, and most perks, are aimed at reducing mana cost, rather than increasing damage. You just can't stack damage like you can with a physical damage class.

I think you do make a point there. There are certain pure mage builds that do decently well and you have to just experiment to find out which ones work best but overall pure tanks are still better and cruise through the game faster. The raised zombies imo cost too much mana and don't last to be worth their mana cost and the atronach is decent but you can't expect it to tank for you or do anything spectacular.

Destruction spells are particularly underpowered though.