That's the gaming-equivalent of "God did it".

But I wasn't talking about professions as classes. Everyone is a trader in the sense that he can trade. That is a simple gaming mechanic. But you can easily use it to roleplay a trader. Or roleplay a diplomat by skilling speechcraft.

that idea sounds horrible. maybe a few places other alliances could not enter would be okay but to cut off the majority of tamriel from me is just bs and this will also help to ruin the most interesting part of any PvP, attacking and claiming territory for your guild/faction/whatever (might just mean camping out in enemy areas and killing anyone who passes by but it is still fun). still looking forward to ESO though

I would hate it if "invisible walls" prohibited players from crossing the faction borders. I'm curious to see how they implement this travel restriction. And hoping that when they say "access denied" they actually mean "not technically, but your life will be so damn hard trying to move around enemy territory".

Y'know, I think the PvP focus of this game is a great direction. What it all comes down to is how you can spend your time once you've "done everything". End-game material will make or break the game, and I think they're doing a great job. I'm not as happy as I could be...but I'm still pretty damn satisfied.

Edit: on a side note, you've gotta love how some people just love to complain - http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/575145_436016529758132_100000493667339_1670004_1155743310_n.jpg

This may be of no constellation as this pertains to a different game, but DAoC apparently had guards on the bordering realms that would insta-kill enemy players if they were to get too close to enemy territory. I have no idea if this is a similar tactic they will use in ESO, but it sounds more of a likely choice than invisible walls that one cannot traverse.

Ok so we both started the same thread , ill just copy paste my post over here since my thread was still born

Ok so I was bummed out when I heard you couldn't explore all the provinces with one character but considering you get to explore x4 the provinces you get to in the single player games (obviously excluding arena), x3 if you pick daggerfall covenant but there has to be a reason . After listening to the podcast and they said the game on release wont have all the areas of you factions provinces open , they are focusing really hard on making awesome areas that are incredibly fun to explore and releasing the new areas in patches and expansions so instead of having straight off 100% of our homeland to explore with shallow go collect 10 x or go kill 15 y , they are starting us with ( not exact number , just an example ) say 50% of our home province but with really interesting quests that are "30-45 minute long stories" -firor or sage. concentrated areas with really in depth TES quests instead if all tamriel with cruddy WoW like quests.

Also I think the whole faction not being able to go to other factions lands reinforces the feel of a community , it also vastly decreases competition for mobs and camping and all that annoying d*^k behaviour that comes with mmo's and when you reroll a different faction you get a whole new experience instead of just a new racial power and character skin. besides with the decreased size of the explorable map comes greater quality of quests and areas , dungeons etc

I'm not concerned with how this could make PVP better or worse. If this is true, I am still hoping it isnt it is a very bad decision. I dont want DAoC ideals superceding TES ideals. The main thing I wanted was a game world that had some modicum of sense.

TES isn't about cookie cutter alliances. Even the factions are sketchy but still well within the bounds of sense. But just because someone is a Nord they cannot go into High Rock? Or a Dunmer into Summerset? It should be difficult but not impossible. There are people like Dram who was an ex Morag Tong Assassin who betrayed his organization to work for Tiber Septim and the Empire. People like the Altmer author of those books in Skyrim who was anti-Thalmor. There were not just a few of these types of people.

I don't see how this makes any sense in terms or realistic interactions. This is 'Derp you can't go there because we said so'. It is fundamentally stupid in execution. There is no reason people would be KoS when traveling between factions and there are no reasons people would stop traveling between factions. There are Khajiit in Skyrim in the middle of the Civil War trying to make a profit on the War. That kind of thing wouldn't stop so how could these guards or invisible walls/whatever they have even make sense? The whole point of a TES MMO was to explore ALL of Tamriel. That should be possible on ONE character. Difficult but possible. Without sacrificing PvP for it.

There should be Conflict zones at the Borders where the factions meet. Like Black Marsh and Argonia or Skyrim, Hammerfell and High Rock. That would have been much more interesting. Have the PvP area at least extended to encompass a neutral contested zone in between the faction borders. Allow travel in other zones. Maybe you need a special pass to go into those zones and while there you must adhere to certain rule sets. If you don't you get attacked and the entire faction zone becomes hostile. When you die you respawn all the way back at your faction. If you just invade the other zones without a pass the whole place will be a hostile zone to you. This leaves plenty of room to build up 'faction pride'. This allows you to survive in another factions zone albeit with hindrances. Which would only be natural.

Even an Altmer born in Morrowind would have hindrances because of racism developing because of the war. Let you choose a race from another faction to be in your faction as your character. Make that choice have consequences like increased prices and decreased selling values because of your race in that faction causing strong dislike as racism and faction pride takes root as the war goes on.

It would take more effort but it would be much more interesting and organic. It can be done. Hopefully this is all just a big misinterpretation.

This game, if you look closely enough, from all manner of angles could be anything you perceive it to be.
I've heard everything from DAOC2 to WoW2.

I could say that if you look closely enough, TES I-V were Hexxen Clones.

I love the idea of TES x DAOC faction warfare and pub dungeons.
I love the idea that combat will be bound to two weapon skills and 4 utility skills.
I love the idea I can actively dodge and block (and hopefully parry)
I love the idea that I can't pull a single monster from a room with line of sight while his buddy stands next to him completely unawares.
I love that there is no holy trinity
I love that I won't have to put up with Nords named Conan or Conanswife or Dark Elves called Drizzt DoUrden. I'll play Daggerfall till the end and relish killing every Dark Elf with 2 scimitars.

If TESO doesn't meet my standards I might just go back to Hexxen VII.... I mean Skyrim TES V

Great posts by Faulgor and Karakh. I think the community as a whole is disappointed with this decision - myself included. I really hope it was a misunderstanding.

Has anyone mentioned faction balance? I think this decision will reek of faction in-balance.

I think this is a great idea and a very good reasoning. It would definitely bring the whole immersion issue to a whole new level!
But hey... dreaming is free... I'd think they will go for the majority of servers being RVR then maybe a PVE and a FFA PVP

Interesting because I've been told repeatedly that the whole point of this being a TES game is just that the lore is correct.

I had made the statements that I lament the implementing of dumbed down MMO game mechanics (that are of course very WoW like) and I was corrected repeatedly that this is not important and that really it is that lore is what is important.

Don't forget full immersion. Just give it up bro. You can't win with these people. I'm just gonna enjoy the game and crush some people out in Cyrodiil.

I wouldn't even consider DAOC a PvP game. The difference between RvR and PvP is about the same as the difference between PvE and PvP. I love RvR more than PvE and PvP combined.

When TES:O was announced, I was pretty down on it because it is not going to be the massive single player experience which was exactly like the rest of TES series.

But, as details about TES:O started to come out, I started to see some redeeming details about TES:O and I started getting more interested in trying out TES:O. In particular, the idea of getting to explore all of Tamriel freely without being corralled by quest hubs started getting to me and I started to get cautiously excited about TES:O.

But now, with this news (which I just learned about), I feel that ZOS just shot itself in the foot and destroyed one of the main redeeming qualities of TES:O.

Quite simply, forcing one to make multiple characters who belong to different factions in order to explore all of Tamriel encourages a metagaming mentality which breaks immersion in the game quite painfully. And, in doing so, it actually weakens faction identity and pride--the very thing which this was meant to strengthen!

Can ZOS say FUS RO D'OH?

Reread the whole thread we had our argument in. I was never saying the mechanics shouldn't be there. I was just making the point that in order for a game to be a TES game all it needs is the lore. Not that just having the lore will make it a 'good' TES game. I don't think Skyrim is even a good TES game but I won't deny that it is a TES game.

If travel is restricted to the starter faction provinces, they'd better be some f'ing huge provinces with lots to explore to offset this limitation.

Definitely and I believe ZMO definitely is not only trying to give us large areas to explore, but concentrated, quality content that we have come to expect in a TES game.

Both sides in this thread have definitely made valid points for their respective preference. Having world pvp confined to Cyrodiil gives PvPers more of a focused and quality experience while PvEers don't have to worry about gank squads and griefers. Having factions with closed borders also has the potential to build faction pride as all those within the faction are restricted to their territory and share the same common goals in PvE and PvP. Communication will also likely be restricted to factions so you will only have contact with your faction and no one else, further building an identity.

On the flip side, having closed borders limits exploration and crossing of different cultures. One reason so many players hold Morrowind as their favorite TES game is because the inherent racism the dunmer held for "outlanders" and the immersion that came with it. Provinces may be set, but traditionally while races may come from particular provinces, they are all rather nomadic. Players also lose the ability to quest with their friends if one happens to be a dunmer and the other a redguard. Having certain races restricted to certain provinces limits contact from outside enemies and as a result could potentially make virtual life much less dynamic and interesting than the racial disputes in the single player games.

Unfortunately, ZMO will not be able to please everyone. That is just the hard, cold facts. The great thing about MMOs is they are never done. Even if what is currently their formula stays in place up until release, I believe there are still additions to the system they can make to please more of the community. Whether being allowed to invade certain parts of enemy provinces after claiming the imperial throne or some other system that materializes, there are potential opportunities ZMO could explore. My hope is ZMO will actively watch their forums, especially during beta testing, which will be crucial. Communication between ZMO and the community will be essential for both parties benefiting, in theory.

So true.
You will never feel so unwelcomed in another game as Morrowind... "We are watching you... SCUM..."

Ha! Love it. Great read btw, Redguard King.

Well I guess as with all the other points nothing we say could change what they do. What they said on various occassions together with the fact that they announced the MMO only one year before the planned release is in my view a pretty clear statement that they believe their way to be good and that they want to have it that way only. That ultimately also means that they don't care a whole lot about anyone not liking how the game works.

To be honest I think that is part of the back to the roots mentality the guys at zenimax online seem to have in some part. The first gen MMOs as far as I remember them never were about making everyone happy. They were the developer's baby and apart from discussion about balancing and details of certain features they did not give a [censored] if players want the feature set to be changed.

I think that is a good way to go. I've seen MMOs fail that tried to make players happy by introducing drastical feature changes (SWG Combat change for example). You have to decide for a solid feature set and try to make it as good as possible. Enough people will like it and those that don't, well they might not play, but it would be stupid to try and catch those aswell, as it might lead to loosing existing customers.

On the particular topic of being limited to your faction's territory: It's understandable and it worked in DAoC as some people here mentioned so why shouldn't it work in TESO aswell.

Nonetheless I believe it's a missed opportunity everytime a MMO decides to go the easy way and base the game on factions and seperated territories instead of basing the game on player built alliances (guilds/clans and alliances of those) and giving them the freedom to claim any territory in the gameworld. Even in such a system PvE players or Beginners could be protected by several other mechanics other than giving them seperated territories. You gain so much dynamic and long term motivation for the PvP crowd at practically no loss on behalf of the PvE crowd if you do it right. Plus you gain a far more immersive and vivid gameworld.

you remembered Hexen

http://www.deque.com/padam/img/rage-guy-happy-face-tears-of-joy.jpg

Hexxen

Great post. MMOs are an expensive and risky business. One may as well go all the way or not at all. The game will still likely do well, but this is certainly a missed opportunity.

This is quite honestly the worst thing I've found out about the game so far.

It's probably the biggest disappointment this whole community has experienced so far. Zeni may have lost a lot of money right there...right on the faction border line.