Thanks for the info and ideas everyone.

Now that the CK is out things can start moving. Currently I am familiarizing myself with the new features, made a quick house mod, and am reading up on the CK wiki. Very soon I will be starting on the first tavern.


Thanks!

You have some very good ideas there. I certainly agree with taverns being a safe haven, that is just what they should be. A tavern should be a very welcome sight for a weary traveller and actually have meaning beyond just buying a drink.

Have just discover this thread and watched the you tube video.. the tavern part was amazing... really cool, a lot of life and the dancers upstairs.. really nice. Thumbs up! Can′t wait to see the results!

Did you [OP] do thehttp://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7545 for Morrowind too? I loved that mod, great atmosphere. I liked the video of the tavern too, fit Oblivion vibe well.

If I could suggest anythings, they would be:

-Mix it up a bit between the taverns: Some should be like your Oblivion mod, some like South Wall. Khajiit are traveling salesmen... maybe a few of the out in the wild taverns have a more Khajiit clientele and Khajiit vibe. Maybe a tavern for mages with mage style lighting. Taverns that are where either the Imperial/Stormcloak/Thalmor troops go for "happy hour".

...and when you get to concentrating on the New Gnisis Cornerclub... Morrowind Ales and Velothi motif.

-Use Skyrim's nice effects. Taverns should vary in their level of smokey haze as per the type of tavern it is.

If you're looking for song transcriptions, I know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough_Fair_(ballad). Also check other songs Celtic Woman might've covered, they sang quite a few traditional Celtic songs. I see you've already discovered Butterfly tea, considering you implemented Heart of Medieval in your Oblivion video. Anyway, I'd recommend you look among traditional folk songs from Northern Europe/Iceland.

About the thalmor visiting the pubs: don't let them join celebrations or anything. I really can't see them mingling merrily with the people they call inferior; least of all singing and dancing ...

Nice ideas so far. I am looking forward to the mod.

Thanks!


No that wasn't me. I do remember the Morrowind tavern overhauls they were fantastic. Good suggestions, thanks!

I made up a quick video of some of the taverns/hotels in my oblivion mod. Mostly to motivate myself, finding that the CK has massive bugs like the Nav Mesh bug really svcked my desire to mod. Anyway....

WARNING! More crazy dancing ahead!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upqpqq-5xcw

Just go past the Elm St bit after the first tavern, that was an underground poverty area of the city.


I love Scarborough Fair! Perhaps the words can be modified to make them more relevant to Skyrim.

I have been looking at some Celtic Women songs, they are some of my favorite artists. One in particular I have been looking at is Solveig's Song as it is relevant to the Skyrim/snow atmosphere. It can be easily modifed and sung lower and more bard like. Celtic Women did a version, but my favorite is by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIkoMm2Q6tU A lady I knew before she got famous and the most phenominal voice I have ever heard live.

Anyway, should have some pics of the first tavern modification to show you all soon.

Is it alright if I make a few remarks?

First tavern: pretty nice, very dark as it should be. Could maybe use a bit more dirt, blood (although elm street seemed to have that) and -especially- spilled drinks. But I wonder, is "yer highness" your character's name? If it is, I think it'd be weird for anyone to know your name there. I really am a bit on the paranoid side, but even then, I wouldn't recommend using your name, especially in such a sleazy bar. Gives me the feeling of wearing a plaque around my neck with my name and address, and inviting everyone to come butcher me up for free. Another thing: the bedroom is quite spacious imho, certainly for such a poor tavern. I'd imagined it to be a place where everybody almost sleeps and drinks on top of each other. But there are limits to what you can do of course, we still need to be able to move around. ^^

I do like Elm street, and its eerie background music. Especially those guys standing/walking by the fire and all looking at you like "what 're ye lookin' at? Mind yer own business!". Now you need a "very dark blind alley" where some robbers suddenly clobber you on your head to steal your valuables when you look too clean. ^^

Second tavern: very well done. Gives off the stinking rich vibe, and good. Now it only still lacks the "accompanying the client to his/her room" thing, which got implemented in Skyrim.

Third tavern: I like this one the most, because of its very cosy and rural feel. Maybe a little bit too spacious (or is it inclined to be more of a rich tavern)?

Fourth tavern: Heeehhh, I like this one too. Looks like you can have good fun there. Very bright and extravert!

Fifth tavern: Haha, very original, love it! But I wouldn't expect for any skeleton to barter or even let me freely walk through the tavern without completing a quest in which I gain their favour somehow. I'd expect them to kill me, if only to get some more fresh human blood and a new soul to wander the place for all eternity. Aside from that, the place and decorations are very well done.

Make a tavern where the low-lifes hang out.
Another with a diabloic theme for a cult.

Great idea, anything that can make taverns more of a focal point in Skyrim towns (since Nords love their drink) adds immersion and it certainly makes sense for each tavern to have unique quirks and layout that help give every town its own personality. Really looking forward to progress on this.

For the ambiance, a 24/7 NPC is a bit odd. I may suggest you use some NPCs that travel around the inns, so at any given point there's some in every inn, that way the people on Wednesday won't be the same as on Saturday, and the mix and match possibilities for atmosphere are greatly increased.

Thanks for the feedback!

'Yer highness' is a slur, like 'taffer' or 'posh boy' or some such thing. I think though that for Skyrim I will make sure it is put across in a way that everyone can understand. I realised while filming that many people wouldn't understand it.

The fifth tavern is part of a quest and set in another dimension where the town Lakewood Village has an Oblivion version of itself. Hopefully that makes sense, it did in my head. lol

So I have been working on the first tavern for Unique Taverns and have chosen to work with Falkreath's Dead Man's Drink first.

My vision for this tavern....

Falkreath is a very old, old town and is intended to have quite a macabre background and feel to it, with all the graves and death. The tavern would be one of the oldest buildings in Falkreath and I imagine it would be one of, if not the oldest tavern in Skyrim. I see a very dark interior with rich dark wood paneling, blackened with the smoke of countless fires. I imagine a large portion of it's clients are old timers reliving their glory days and the bard songs are more subdued tales of heroism. As it is run by a woman there are a few feminine touches here and there.

I have retextured the tavern and redecorated, however I am having issues with one of the textures so can't post screenshots just yet. I am also waiting on hearing about the NavMesh bug and whether that is going to be fixed. I sincerley hope it is, otherwise it is going to be a major problem.

But things are moving forward.

Suggestion - any way there could be more to do in taverns: e.g. regular fistfighting matches (which you can bet on) and dice (a la witcher 2) ? Might be fun xx

You have my support, for what its worth, I’m just getting started in modding, but I have written a lot of RPG stuff, and I agree that minigames are really needed. Gambling, or fighting, drunken indoor archery, axe throwing, Something with atmosphere and a gives reason for the player to stop hang and listen. More songs, or poetic verses based on the Dovahkiin adventures, even minor events, like the slaying of the foul necromancer Sidi in the ruins of Rannveig’s Fast would make a good tale. Rumors that can be coaxed out or teased from the drunken patrons, some true and many false and yes, I’ll say it, seducing the barmaid, we all know the porm element is out there, might as well put it in context like Star Wars the Old Republic did,. This way we can avoid having a giggling teenager make gross comments comment on UTube about the torture chamber victims.



Now, if we could combine this with a Bard College additional quests line, and say a true Bard follower of the PC, that tells of his or hers adventures and sings songs while resting and uses songs as magic like traditional RPG Bards do that would be interesting.



You could have modders with finished adventures, write and ask you to do a dialog bit segway for their mod, just to keep it consistant.

Great to see progress is being made on this much needed Skyrim improvement.

I support the suggestions that there should be pub games available. How about a skittle alley (Primitive ten pin bowling) in a side room in one of the inns? This used to be very popular in UK pubs, there's still a few around-

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.valeofthewhitehorseinn.co.uk/Images/skittle_alley.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.valeofthewhitehorseinn.co.uk/skittles.html&usg=__A1bqMElGvL--gC-oREbs5cvGVxM=&h=511&w=450&sz=33&hl=en&start=53&zoom=1&tbnid=sWMe3laCkZNprM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=115&ei=aHxDT4mnNqi80QXntvWODw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpub%2Bskittle%2Balley%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1

how about some screenshots?

Really looking forward to this. I think Skyrim already has much better taverns than many other RPGs I've played, with the singing bards and the waiters and everything, but they still could be a bit more lively. I also love the fact that you're recording new songs, I was very disappointed when there were only three and a half songs in the game (and one of them, "The Dragonborn comes", is absolutely horrible, if you ask me).

If you're still looking for songs that you could put into the game, there's one song I really love. It's apparently a ballad by Francois Villon, but I can't find the original text anywhere, I only know the German translation, which was turned into a campfire song that's quite popular with scouts and other similar groups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkQJcpBOt5s
I translated the text some time ago into English, and it's certainly not perfect, but maybe a native speaker could improve it.

Two points:

If you think The Dragonborn Comes suxorz, then check this out. You might change your mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z9TdDCWN7g

Secondly, SK's taverns are nothing compared to TW2. Check it out. SK's taverns seriously need help.

O_O By the divines, man!!! I swear, if you can pull all this off, I'm buying a computer JUST so I can download your mod.

P.S. Include some Khajiit, please?

Great ideas, thanks everyone!


It is difficult, because the true work cannot be done until Bethesda releases the promised fix for the NavMesh problem. So right now I am texturing walls and furniture, ready for when I can put it together. I am doing some modification, but only to see the effect of the textures and to plan layouts.

Like for Falkwreath.....I wanted dark, carved wood paneling, cold flag stone floors and huge stone hearths (one at each end)

I figure the Nords are master wood craftsmen and the ancient nords were probably the very best. Given that Falkwreath is so old, it's decor should be rich, ornate and dark wood. At least inside the tavern.

I am pleased with it so far, this is just a mock up of the layout with the retexed walls/floor etc. The furniture still needs to be done in a dark wood.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/Shezrie/UTFalk.jpg

I think this is a brilliant idea for a mod, with reference to having more bard songs, I actually think it would be fun to have some bards who actually are rubbish singers, the ones you feel like throwing tomatoes and cabbages at, I also think its weird how lots of the taverns have rooms with no doors on them or you end up sharing a room with a stranger. If this is the case why not throw in the risk of maybe being robbed of stuff whilst you are asleep or adding diseased related to sleeping in flea ridden beds or gettign food poisoning. Good luck with it.

Your Tavern (and the house too) was great and I see that you do quality work so I am really looking forward to this WIP. I thought I voiced support for this idea before, but anyway, you have some great ideas here and I hope work is progressing well.

For the music, I would suggest sticking to smaller arrangements that fit the instruments being used (lute and voice, drum, flute, etc.) and make it 3d proximity-based like the bard music already is in Skyrim. I haven't mucked about in CK yet because I'm still playing, but I'd imagine it is set up in the dialogue options. In either case, I'm sure you've found out by now.

Myself, I had always planned to do a Morrowind (and then Oblivion) mod with a travelling bard using dialogue for the music (to get that proximity effect). I had already figured on using the lip files to snych the vocals and had experimented with it, but I could never get the right animations for lutes and other instruments. In Morrowind, the only bard animations I could find were static objects and in Oblivion, I could never find what mods had the lute playing animation, though I saw youtube videos of guitar playing, etc. Also, I later saw that Cliffworms had taken over CorePC's minstrels mod and was making a large scale mod (Oblivifall) that planned to add bards already. I'm still looking forward to that one being finished one day.

I wish I could contribute something to this - currently I only play guitar (6-string, not the lute) and sing rock/goth/punk/metal styles and don't know too many songs that would seem to fit Skyrim's mod. I am looking to learn some more medieval songs, but currently the closest I can come is playing/singing stuff like "The Three Ravens" and playing Bourree (badly) on my Takemine. I really want to get a classical guitar or a lute or mandolin one of these days to get the right sound.

Have you looked into getting some people like Malukah (she's on youtube) to allow you to use their songs in the game? I know I've seen at least one mod that changes the female bard songs to some of hers as well as some other youtube versions of Skyrim songs. I'd rather if you added new bards (with some new songs) than modify the ones already in game as others have done. Of course, if you are modifying pre-existing Taverns, it may be unavoidable to change the vanilla bards that play there.

I'd love to see some bards that travel around Skyrim and you could run into some of the same bards in different towns and they might recognize you if you had talked to them or helped them before. Also, on that note, you could have some quests where you can get paid by the bards to escort them to other towns, etc. Now the average bard doesn't make too much money (trust me, I know) so he/she probably can't afford to pay you much. You could have the bard reward the player with a treasure map or useful trinket... "Well, sorry I don't seem to have much coin on me right now, friend, but I do have this rare and wonderful trinket that's I've picked up in my travels - did I tell you I went to the Black Marsh once? Terrible place... and the food is lousy!" If it's a female bard, perhaps she will play a ballad for you? A sultry plea for help and a kiss on the cheek might entice the player's help with whatever her dilemma is, and if she has no money and low enough standards... perhaps she would offer to share her room with you... Many cool role playing and adventure possibilities... "My friend I have just the thing... this treasure map, which I bought for a substantial amount of coin, could be yours for assisting me with my little problem. What? How am I supposed to know what it leads to? Do I look like I enjoy crawling through slimy caves to you? You're the adventurer! Errr... you are an adventurer, aren't you...?"

I'm sure someone has pointed you towards the Voice Actors Guild... thought I had the link somewhere but it must be on my laptop. I've got some voice samples I've been meaning to upload on there.

For the Tavern patrons, I'd suggest not having the same people there 24/7 as that got old in Morrowind - unless there are extra rooms they could crash in. There could be a loft or spare stalls in the stable where some of the bums could go crash whenever their schedule tells them they should sleep. Some people could pass out at tables/the bar or in the corner on the floor and get woken up (and probably kicked out) by the barkeep. Also, there could be some people that wander around town and go to sleep in various spots around town until the town guards find them and make them move. I know, it sounds like a scheduling and scripting nightmare to me, but just making some suggestions.

Good luck with this, I'll be keeping an eye on this one!

Like all the ideas.

But will the this new npc only be in the tavern or will they go around the town to? And is it poseible that if a random npc/important npc dies some weeks later a new random nps/important npc moves in?

Really hate when a dragon atacks the city and kills a NPC that your are doing a misson for and you get misson failed

BTW in the first big town youvist "Whiterun", behind the blacksmith house there is some open "land" could be a good spot for a 2 level house for random npc.
Some times you meet adventures on the road but mostly dead once, it would be cool to se random ones live and going in town buying stuff and sleep in the tavern, will make skyrim more alive.

NOW THAT'S A TAVERN.

If you want any interesting NPC designs, just say hi to me and I'll try to get some stuff for ye.

Thanks for the support.

MrQuest, at present the NPCs will only be in the tavern and will leave and enter a secret room, so it looks like they are coming and going. The reason why it is done like this is so that this mod will be compatible with giant, popular mods like Open Cities.

I was waiting for the NavMesh fix before making major headway on this mod. But I am really wanting to get moving on it and get something released. The nav mesh bug will really screw things up, but I may go ahead and finish and release Falkreath anyway.

Sorry to hear that ***** bug is delaying the release...(BETHESDA, FIX IT ALREADY!!), as I want to see this mod badly