I'm totally into this Meek. I'm also looking for more life in taverns. To quote Daggerfall's manual:


I have been working on this same kind of project for Oblivion for a year or two, though lately it has not progressed too much because of Skyrim's release.
Here's what I've been adding to the taverns to give you ideas.

More NPCs

Here's a list of patrons I've added to the taverns (Put in spoiler tags so the post is not too clunky )
Many of those are set to dance to the bards' songs.


What I did in my Oblivion mod was having around 75% of the city inns populated with locals (Peasants, Commoners, Noblemen) and the other 25% with Adventurers (Archers, Agents, Mages, etc.) and other city individuals (Guards, Local priests) while the wilderness inns have only adventurers, farmers, hunters and patrolling soldiers.
Regarding races, I have 50% of the NPCs as the local race (So Imperials in Oblivion), 25% of the race closest to the bordering province (Redguards in Anvil, for example) and the other 25% as the rest of the races. So, for instance, having 50% of Nords in Markath, 25% of Bretons and 25% of the rest.

And I think it's now possible to easily create groups of NPCs that can only spawn together, if I judge by how some group of NPCs spawn at random encounters on the road. That can make it easy to have a group of adventuring buddies spawn only together at tavern instead of having only patrons coming by themselves. (Or couples, groups of commoner friends and the likes)

Oh and I was going to forget, some inn employees. Such as the cook, the bouncer(s), the waitresses that greet you when you take a seat (Like in Whiterun). The bartender could also greet you if you sit at the counter.

Unique Dialogue

The NPCs can talk about your player's actions that they overheard. And since it's mouth to ears, these rumors can be wrongly described. Such as saying that the Dragonborn can shoots bolts of lightning of his eyes and fireballs from his buttocks.
Minstrels can be tipped. And since minstrels and bards stay in taverns, they can know inform the player about the latest rumors for a fee.


Regarding Horses

A leveled creature marker can have a random chance of spawning horses at the stables. That way, a inn can have one, two, more or no horses at all from time to time; Creating the illusion of come and go from mounted travelers.


Atmosphere

Some unclean taverns can have a rat or two in the cellar. Since rats are attracted to those establishments, having cats in the cellar or on the main floor adds a bit more atmosphere.
It's a bit different in Skyrim since there's one tavern by city, most of the time, but I'd suggest having different social class patrons for some establishments. For example, a high concentration of poor Dark Elves and other non-Human races at the New Gnisis Tavern in Windhelm or more nobles, knights and crusaders at the main tavern.


I'll be following this. It's in my plans to mod in some tavern mini games, such as drinking contests. (I have scripted one for my Oblivion tavern one that works wonderfully.) It'll go perfectly with your project. And I'll also work on Sounds of Skyrim, adding new tavern sounds to enhance the atmosphere.

Good planning!

Meek i loved your idea. I will surely download your mod if you make it.

I was in the riften inn one night and the place was full at around 9:00. Everyone was quite cheeky with each other and I half expected a fight. It felt like a small town restaurant with all the regulars. No bards, but the tavern felt alive but very subdued. Something to check out anyways.

Meek,

Just want to let you know that I am EXTREMELY appreciative of the work you put into making TES games better than they already are... I spent hours browsing the Oblivion Real Estate site and enjoyed every second.

I eagerly look forward to anything you choose to do with Skyrim!!!

i have an idea you may like.

more unique roaming npcs.
example: Fargoth. [lol]
bosmer smokepipe merchant [smoking in the tavern please?] with a gambling habit. likes to talk complain and boast but is relatively harmless.
frequently stays at the solitude inn, though ocasionally travels to riften to bet on the barfights.
gets in a bit of trouble with a loan shark in riften. can no longer stay at the inn. travels back to solitude but stays in whiterun for a period of 3 weeks.
during that three weeks you can either get a quest from the loan shark in riften to retrieve the money [or a finger if you cant persuade fargoth]
OR you can get a quest from fargoth to handle the situation. [if you are thieves guild then you can persuade the shark, if not than you may have to make him yield or kill him]
if you miss the quest fargoth will stay in solitude, complaining about his missing ring finger and swearing off gambling forever.

and there you go, a very unique quest with a very unique npc giving your taverns some atmosphere and story.

the reason i posted that is to point out something kind-of obvious. you cant just tack on dialogue to existing npcs, you need more npcs and unique voice overs to REALLY immerse yourself in the unique tavern.
that, or re-do many npcs in the tavern with different actors, i wouldn't mind this for some npcs who lack a bit of personality.
also, having actual travelers in your inns is important right? i mean YOU are a traveler.

Looks like a great mod...one I will be avidly watching ..as to me..one of the great things about Skyrim is it's atmosphere..or potential for it..
This sort of mod,as long as the taverns are kept pretty much in keeping with the nature of the land,appears to be the sort of thing that would add to it...along with,hopefully,in the future,some expansion of the towns and cities..and maybe the odd new village or two...and their attendant extra personalities etc.

With regard to this mod..
Would be great,as has been touched on,to see the bard roles expanded,a broader repertoire of songs...be they local folk songs,nationalistic/patriotic types...bawdy fun songs etc.
Perhaps Bards could also tell stroies or sing songs of local legends..that point to quests or treasures?
Must be plenty of material out there that could be converted or is relevant to the setting...nordic/Norse style songs/ballads/stories etc. as well as more instrumental choices for when the bards aren't singing?

Another encounter..that I was thinking of...something akin to a press gang maybe..?This could just be an event or even be worked up to a full blown questline...or maybe have the player waylaid in a tavern by Thalmor agents and taken to a dungeon etc. along the same lines..i.e would entail an initial encounter..then an escape etc. from a ship/remote or not so remote holding location?
Press gang could be pretty much any group ..pirates..mercenaries needing more arrow fodder,Imperials,Stormcloaks..

The only problem with place filler NPCs is that there's no peak and off peak times for the Taverns. It'd be good if they appeared at certain times of the day to give the impression of the tavern getting busier (they have to clean up at some time, right?). It will also be good to get rid of the invisible Bards that inhabit most of Skyrim's Taverns.

Interesting idea, I like it.

One thing I would like to see, possibly in a separate mod if you don't think it fits well with this, is more variation in Alcohol. I'd like each bar or region to have a few different types so we are not all just drinking 'Mead'. There are some examples of this in the game and I really like those such as I believe the guy in Riften. I would like to see some more of those kinds of things.

The thing I like the most about the new taverns is the bards who sing. I wish they sang more songs.

One thing I would love to see added is a fully voiced new bard mod with one or two bards with new lore correct songs added to the game in various places.

Even without actually seeing them walk in and out, just having different NPCs there from time to time might give the same illusion; travelers who have left and others who have just come in and stopped for a night. I know, of course, that it will all depend on how the CK is set up, but if there are leveled encounters in the wilderness and dungeons, there has to be some sort of system for choosing an individual from a list. Perhaps something like that could be used, so that each time the player goes to a tavern, the clientele will have changed at least slightly.

This is a superb idea, and will undoubtedly be an instant download for me. I'm really looking forward to how this develops. And, even though I know you aren't anywhere near this stage, I'll be happy to help make NPCs and even do dialogue if you need it (depending, of course, only on how hard the CK is to master).

If Cliffworms and Meek end up working together on this, I'll be such a happy man.

Loving both of your idea sets, they'll work great

As for the "Order a Drink" idea, would it work to talk to the barmaid and she either takes you to a seat(high quality establishment) or points you at one(low quality establishment)?

That way the number of potential seats are somewhat limited. You could even have a little dialogue option: "Perhaps somewhere a bit more secluded?" which seats you in a dark corner somewhere, and maybe a smuggler or something would approach you. On the other hand, asking to sit near the party, or nearer to the center/brighter part of the room might be more likely to result in a friendly brawl or drinking competition.

We decided that it is best to not change any exteriors in towns/cities in order to allow for compatibility with such mods as Better Cities etc.. I think once such mods are released then we can focus on integrating, but for now focus on making Unique Taverns a standalone mod. But of course Unique Taverns has the goal of blending in beautifully with the sure to be incredible Better Cities mods.


Some excellent ideas and points here, thank you! The addition of some tavern mini games would be brilliant. It is beyond my own skill so I would be very grateful for this. Sounds of Skyrim will be a must have for me in my own game and I think would give taverns incredible atmosphere.


I shall definitely check that out, thanks!


Thank you so much!

I have already made the Skyrim equivalent but was not allowed to officially announce it on this forum. However if anyone is interested....

http://skyrimrealestate.com/index.html

and the new forum at....

http://www.skyrimrealestate.com/forum/index.php

We are and have been the home for house modders since 2006. I can't wait to hold our first challenge for Skyrim and fill the site with brand new house mods, like Oblivions Real Estate.

If you are not familiar with me, I run http://oblivionsrealestate.com/index.html.


You are quite right. I can't just extend vanilla NPCs dialog, not even with silent dialog. That would just be too jarring and immersion breaking. We need unique NPCs with unique dialog. I loved doing the dialog in Oblivion, while good voice actors were limited, for my mods I made hundreds of lines of silent dialog and it was fun. I told long stories through dialog and really created personalities for my NPCs. However...for Skyrim, I am going to head out and grab every good voice actor I can lay my hands on. I want the dialog voiced.


If I have to sing myself I will do it! Btw, I am a classically trained singer.


The use of a holding cell would make that possible and you would see NPCs coming in and out of the tavern throughout the day and of course at night it would fill up.


If we could get some texturers on board we could include a selection of alcohol with retexed bottles etc.. As time progresses and resources are released this will be possible anyway.


Thank you! I hope to make this project a compilation of work by many modders. The more input, the better it will be as various modders excel in certain areas more then others. Together we will make it all the more better.


I will need to take a real close look at the rental scripts and dialog, in particular how you are led to your room. But I bet that we can do that.

You're a classically trained singer, Meek? Oh man, this mod just got twice as cool.

I have never sung anything but opera and musical theater though. So it could be a disaster.

Because we don't have a CS and I can't start work with that I figured I could work on the songs/music etc. Sooooo...where are all the closet singers here? Closet musicians?......

It's a longshot, but....

If anyone here can sing and would like to add to the current songs in Skyrim, could you please record yourself singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfwCsSfry4k and pm me a link to the file. (mp3 is best)

It doesn't have to be perfect, the vanilla ones are far from perfect.

Here is what I am thinking.....

A bard would generally sing tales of long gone heros, love, current events etc....

So I want to modify some songs already in there and rewrite the lyrics. Add in some new songs, but they must fit in with Skyrim and the nordic theme. Add in some new music flute and drum pieces.

So, does anyone have suggestions for songs you would like to hear in taverns in Skyrim, or music pieces?

I'd be all for this if it doesn't add strange and awkward NPC dances.

It is not going to add strange and awkward dances. Like I explained above those animations were the only dance animations available for Oblivion so I used them.

It was either use them or not have any dancers at all in my Oblivion taverns.

I love when NPCs are doing the "im drunk and dancing" animation, and while they're doing it they try to act threatening toward you in dialogue. Ohhhhhh Skyrim...

Excellent concept for modding, and glad to see you have the chops to make it happen! Will be following this one closely.

Once you've got quality musicians and singers lined up to deliver lore-laden lyrics and soul-stirring sounds, why not also put out a call for "bad singers"? I'm willing to bet that a number of people, myself included, have graduated from the Berklee School of Bathroom Ballads. So why not utilize this untapped pool of no talent? If some bawdy bard gets The Banded Mare filled with energy, you just know some drunk alpha Nord is going to start bellowing his rendition of the song's best lines, and then everyone who's had more than a sip to drink is going to join in. Memorable night ensues.

Seriously, I think there is a place for raucous merriment in Skyrim. Not a big place. I'm the foremost defender of immersion and lore-preservation, so I don't advocate NPCs launching into a round of "Get Me to the Church on Time" every time I walk into a bar. Not all taverns would have this sort of chorus-style behavior, and what with the tribulations in Skyrim these past few years, Divines know there's little to celebrate. But Nordic culture is a little frisky (crisp air and the smell of pine) and its very bold (FUS RO DAH!). These people sing their troubles away, and when one sings, people join in. Organic community-building at its finest. Also, smart bards may actually want this to happen, particularly later in the evening, as it might make for a memorable climix, more gold in his pocket, and a chance to rest his voice. In short, Grendel attacked Heorot because of those damnable Danes and their singing. I want to find a tavern in Skyrim where the culture is so warm that woods demons come to shut us up.

And before I leave off the concept of sounds. I have an inkling for how burdensome it must be to get loads of new sounds into this game, but don't neglect background sound. Ambient noise is the first thing I notice when I walk into a restaurant or bar (maybe I'm weird like that, but I bet I'm not alone). It does wonders to reveal the culture of the establishment, and give clues as to what's acceptable and not acceptable. I would love to sit down at a table and catch snippets of conversation, laughter (and ... crying?), the clink of tankards, dogs growling over scraps, a barmaid coughing on the smoke from the mage's pipe she wagered she could handle, the splosh of split brew, and on and on. Labor intensive, I know. But it makes all the difference in the world.

More thoughts in the future. Also, DreamKing's suggestions are excellent on all accounts. If some of the things mentioned therein are included in the mod, I'll be one happy modee.

This is a superb idea. I second it enthusiastically. Not only would it be a great touch, I'd bet it would add a wonderful and unique aspect to this mod that would make it stand out from any other "sound-adding" mods out there that might affect taverns.

I want you to make this mod like you have no idea!

well i guess that explains where the hobos of the towns hang out