Wasteland 2 forthcoming? : Othor Games

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:59 am

Unfortunately, as I believe was mentioned in one of the DoubleFine videos, 1-2 million isn't going to impress the big publishers. They're not going to feel threatened or decide there's a worthwhile market. They'll glance over, say "oh, that's cute" and go back to spending over a hundred million on the next Call of Duty.

But, you're missing the big picture. What-if W2 sells a billion dollars worth of copies after it's finished? Then the big publishers might take notice.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:42 am

Hah, they'll never sell 1 billion. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they manage to sell 1 million copies of the game (or $15m if each game is sold for $15).

» Tue May 15, 2012 2:03 am

They may not sell a billion dollars worth but I'm sure it'll be successful in it's own right. Screw the publishers.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:08 pm

More to the point, I have no hope that we'll see AAA budgets for niche genres. But maybe they'll see that there are folk out there willing to pay and play - and maybe they'll let some of the deeper content in without it getting streamlined away.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:32 pm

Hah, they'll never sell 1 billion. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they manage to sell 1 million copies of the game (or $15m if each game is sold for $15).

1 million is very easily doable. Some people won't be Kickstarting because the payment options are slim. Others will double-, triple- and quadruple-dip. Others will pick it up as a curiosity here and there. Some people don't like buying promises and are waiting for an actual product, with actual reviews, before they jump in.

1 million is very easily doable, especially over a few years.

» Tue May 15, 2012 2:54 am

But, you're missing the big picture. What-if W2 sells a billion dollars worth of copies after it's finished? Then the big publishers might take notice.

Well of course they'd notice if it became by far the best-selling videogame in history. The point wasn't that publishers don't make these games because they think nobody will buy them, but because they're not interested in small numbers. Current trends came about because they gravitated toward larger audiences; they know how big the market is, there's no secret majority waiting on the edge of their seats.

Success is harder to measure with this system because you're not making back the money you spent, you're spending the money you already made, but the idea wasn't whether I think it'll be successful. I just doubt it'll have a big enough impact to make big publishers care.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:58 pm

http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/27/brian-fargo-talks-wasteland-2-abysmal-publisher-treatment-and-having-fun-again/

» Tue May 15, 2012 3:30 am

This bit was interesting:

MF: One of the things I’ve noticed is that there is a difference in that Double Fine started with Kickstarter, but you were pretty vocal that this was the last chance for Wasteland 2. Even though the language is a little bit different, what I’ve noticed is that, at some level, there seems to be a bit of defiance in developers that decide to use the movement. They were very political and, even more recently, Tim Schafer has come out and said that there is a place for everybody. You’ve said the same thing. Is tension between developers and publishers, especially around creative issues, normal?
BF: There is more tension than you can believe. You would not believe the stories you hear about how developers are treated by publishers these days. It is abysmal.
MF: Why don’t we hear more about it…?
BF: Because they are afraid to talk, because they’ll never get another contract if they do. That’s why. You cannot believe… it’s awful. It’s really bad. You should try to dig in and get some stories out there. Look at the most recent one with those poor guys at http://www.ripten.com/tag/obsidian. They did Fallout: New Vegas, the ship date got moved up and, who does the QA on a project? The publisher is always in charge of QA. When a project goes out buggy, it’s not the developer. The developer never says, “I refuse to fix the bug,” or, “I don’t know how.” They never do that. It’s the publisher that does the QA, so if a product goes out buggy, it’s not the developer’s fault. So, (Fallout: New Vegas) goes out buggy and they didn’t do the QA, their ship date got moved up and they missed their metacritic rating by one point. Did they get a bonus? No. Do you think that’s fair? I tried to get some of my publisher friends, who I used to make a lot of money for, to donate. Do you think they donated? No. Their employees did.

Of course, it doesn't matter how many times you try to tell people this. They always blame the developer for bugs despite the fact that the developer usually doesn't have much input in the QA process.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:26 pm

Oh man, it'd be so awesome if Wasteland 2 had the "find the right word" copy protection and I had to go through the big ass game manual to find it. I love Brian Fargo and I can't wait for this game to come out.

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:08 pm

Donated too much. See you guys at the party.

Kidding...I didn't give that much.

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:23 pm

I wish I could donate more. But my wife complained when I donated $150.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:33 pm

Both Schafer and Fargo have stressed that publishers aren't evil and such, but then I keep reading things like Obsidian not getting paid because their project was denied QA or the developers of Bard's Tale not even being allowed to speak to the voice actors, and ugh. I would not miss them.

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:29 pm

I wish I could donate more. But my wife complained when I donated $150.

That you contributed at all is what matters (and $150 is nothing to sneeze at). I hope this type of thing catches on. Allowing gamers to invest in projects they like is a cool way to make the process more democratic.

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:55 am

Thanks.

When I heard about this Kickstarter I knew I wanted to help. I remembered wasting so much of my childhood playing Wasteland and have been dying dor a sequel.

My wife just doesn't understand.

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:18 pm

Women, can't live with them, can't live without them. AmIright??

And I'm pretty stoked to be a part of this. I'm hoping they hit at least 2 million before the end.

» Mon May 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Everyone who was going to buy it has already put money into it, so they shouldn't expect many sales.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Everyone who was going to buy it has already put money into it, so they shouldn't expect many sales.

I'm guessing that most of the backers are fans of the original. Even if every fan of the original made a pledge that qualifies them for a copy there are a lot more potential sales out there if the game is good. Most people I talk to (even fans of the original Fallout games) have no idea what Wasteland is/was.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:33 pm

I'm guessing that most of the backers are fans of the original. Even if every fan of the original made a pledge that qualifies them for a copy there are a lot more potential sales out there if the game is good. Most people I talk to (even fans of the original Fallout games) have no idea what Wasteland is/was.

Most do, and the outside market for a Turn based game that's not a JRPG is not too great.

» Tue May 15, 2012 2:58 am

Most do, and the outside market for a Turn based game that's not a JRPG is not too great.

Most who do what?

Anyway, the market for that type of game is much bigger on the PC than on consoles. It might not do well as a cross-platform title, but as an indie PC game I'd wager that it would do very well if it turns out to be a good game.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:19 pm

Most who do what?

Anyway, the market for that type of game is much bigger on the PC than on consoles. It might not do well as a cross-platform title, but as an indie PC game I'd wager that it would do very well if it turns out to be a good game.

Most of the Fallout 1&2 fans and the Wasteland fans are the ones who funded it. And yes the PC market is more receptive, but most of the people that would buy it have already through kickstarter. Hell, Civilization 5 has only sold 1.5 million copies and that is one of the most popular in recent memory. And that had the added benefit of RTS elements that attracted a larger market.

And you also have to pay the people who worked on it. And they are using all the kickstarter money to make it.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:51 pm

Most of the Fallout 1&2 fans and the Wasteland fans are the ones who funded it. And yes the PC market is more receptive, but most of the people that would buy it have already through kickstarter.

There are only ~32,000 Wasteland and Fallout fans? Disagree. Again, if it's a good game it will attract people that aren't familiar with the original. I'm not sure why that is so hard to believe given the success of other indie games on platforms like Steam.

And you also have to pay the people who worked on it. And they are using all the kickstarter money to make it.

So...won't they be paid already, then?

» Tue May 15, 2012 3:38 am

There are only ~32,000 Wasteland and Fallout fans? Disagree. Again, if it's a good game it will attract people that aren't familiar with the original. I'm not sure why that is so hard to believe given the success of other indie games on platforms like Steam.

So...won't they be paid already, then?

They are using all the money from kickstarter to make the best possible game and have stated that numerous times. That is the budget for the game.
Somebody needs to pay the other people that work on the project. As in paychecks.

Also this is a different story then many of the recent popular indie games. Most people will not look at a Turn Based game and decide they want to get it even though it's cheap. Look at the most popular indie games out there, they all have varying types of gameplay and few are Tuned Based.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:44 pm

They are using all the money from kickstarter to make the best possible game and have stated that numerous times. That is the budget for the game.
Somebody needs to pay the other people that work on the project. As in paychecks.

What does the budget for the game go toward? Doesn't it mostly go to staffing? I'm pretty sure it does. :shrug:

Also this is a different story then many of the recent popular indie games. Most people will not look at a Turn Based game and decide they want to get it even though it's cheap. Look at the most popular indie games out there, they all have varying types of gameplay and few are Tuned Based.

Aside from the fact that there are far more Wasteland/Fallout fans than the ~32,000 that have pledged so far, I'd still disagree. If it's a good game people will buy it regardless of the fact that it's turn-based. Since there really isn't any evidence to prove things either way we'll just have to agree to disagree.

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:03 am

What does the budget for the game go toward? Doesn't it mostly go to staffing? I'm pretty sure it does. :shrug:

Aside from the fact that there are far more Wasteland/Fallout fans than the ~32,000 that have pledged so far, I'd still disagree. If it's a good game people will buy it regardless of the fact that it's turn-based. Since there really isn't any evidence to prove things either way we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Partially, but in terms of after they have made they game. But afterwards, is inExile going to do another kickstarter for another game? How are they going to keep people on payroll when they used up their budget by the time the game is released?

Nobody buys a game regardless of the fact that its turn based. You either like turn based or you don't. If you don't like turn based games then you just don't buy it.

» Tue May 15, 2012 6:25 am

Partially, but in terms of after they have made they game. But afterwards, is inExile going to do another kickstarter for another game? How are they going to keep people on payroll when they used up their budget by the time the game is released?

1. InXile has other money too. Fargo has been doing this for a while. He knows how to budget things.
2. You're still assuming that they won't sell any copies of the game, which is a pretty far-out assumption.

Anyway, I've managed a few software development projects in my day, and in my experience man-hours eat most of the budget by far. I can't imagine that games development projects are that much different in that respect.

Nobody buys a game regardless of the fact that its turn based. You either like turn based or you don't. If you don't like turn based games then you just don't buy it.

What? Yes, people that hate turn-based combat might not buy it based on that. What's your point?