[Katie Louise Ingram]

Can I get a 1895 Winchester in on that? Everyone already took the most likely ones.

Also, I'd LOVE a Sharps in .45-70.

[Manuel rivera]

The GAMER mag called the Virigin Mary Pistol a Colt .45 which it resembles but wiki has the weapon under 9mm.

[Laurenn Doylee]

The GAMER mag called the Virigin Mary Pistol a Colt .45 which it resembles but wiki has the weapon under 9mm.

It actually is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power.

[Eileen Müller]

I actually guessed the Winchester Model 1886. :tops:

Can I get a 1895 Winchester in on that? Everyone already took the most likely ones.

OK. Make that:

Me - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_No._1
Reinbach - http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=024C&mid=534053
Hammer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biggest,_Finest_Revolver
Shoot2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle
Spectre - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield:lightbulb:
Cookie - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1895

That leaves at the minimum the gun that it was designed for: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Model_1873 and also the http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/historic-detail.asp?family=002C&mid=534160.

Cookie, braggin rights and 5 NCR dollars to the winner.

The GAMER mag called the Virigin Mary Pistol a Colt .45 which it resembles but wiki has the weapon under 9mm.

That wasn't the only thing they got wrong in that preview. Some crappy writing there.

[Siidney]

Question of the day #4

What's more important to you:

The weapon in the game looks/acts/feels/sounds like it does in real life?

OR

The weapon in the game functions well within the constraints of the game mechanics and is fun to play?

Game mechanics always outweigh physical accuracy in my opinion. I'm playing a video game, not a simulation. If it were a simulation however, I'd expect the weapon to look exactly like it's real life counterpart, act like it's real life counterpart, sound like it's real life counterpart, and operate/feel (i.e. recoil, muzzle flash, etc.) like it's real life counterpart.

Take for instance Fallout 3's sawn off shotgun. I loved the aesthetic look of it because it made me feel like making a Mad Max character. However, when I saw how terribly ineffective the weapon was, it abandoned any of those hopes or dreams.

And plus if the weapons reacted like they did in real life, there would be certain weapons that would always be the best choice to have, rather than each one having strengths and weaknesses.

[stevie trent]

I always saw a lack of flat and longbows in Fallout games as something of a curiosity. I'm not talking about magical elven blah, but your generic bow made from a log or felled tree with an axe, the arrows fastened from branches, fletching from whatever you want, the bowstring from intestines/fiber cord, and arrowheads from simple hammered steel. No doubt they won't be in New Vegas. At least there's throwing spears [and I'm assuming throwing knives].

RE: weapon realism,

No one has ever got it right, in any game to date. For example, what game have you seen where you're temporarily [or even permanently] deaf and your ears are ringing after you discharge a firearm [without plugs in or muffs on]? Sure, some have it with grenades/explosions, but firearms do it just the same (barring .22LR rifles. .22LR pistols are loud). This is just one example.

[Jamie Moysey]

I still want to see the Railway Rifle back. It makes a lot more sense in the Mojave Wasteland since the NCR was actually trying to build railroads. Being able to mod the already amazing Railway Rifle would make my day.

[Queen]

I mentioned this on another thread but I would would like to see a predator drone. You would use a targeting laser and paint the area to be bombed. The drone's payload could be changed from say 10 frag grenades or 2 mini nukes. It strafe the target area an return to your house. You would then have to return to the house to reload the predator. Although if they put this in they would have to take out the satellite laser since to have both would be a bit much imo.

How would that have been developed yet? Look at the timeframe and such, and think of how the world and universe of Fallout is. Itsan alternate reality, so you can't put in some
of these weapon systems.

[Michelle Smith]

Question of the day #4

Within constraints of the game, for sure...considering the popularity of the Pancor Jackhammer in some games, and the fact that I can't find any evidence that there were any more of them produced than 2 prototypes. A little speculation on there being more than 2, but every source I can find agrees that it never went into production- but the number in some games would lead one to believe it was produced in greater numbers than the AK-47 and its offpsring and licensed variants.

Allright. That makes it:


Me - Ruger No.1
Alois Hammer - BFR, right?
Reinbach - Winchester 1885
Shoot2 - 1874 Sharps.

I was actually agreeing with Master Sawyer's link and its implication (at least by my interpretation) of the Winchester 1886 being the in-game .45-70.

Although he actually did mention the BFR at some point, sooo...hmmm. Okay, I'll stick with the BFR and call it "wishful thinking." And hope it's the 10" version, like mine.

[Lucky Girl]

Question of the day #4

For me, it has to fit the games profile. Time constituints(spelling?), style, and use.

Time: We can't want to just throw in every cool gun ev0r into the game. Just cause the ACR was in COD and was cool, or just cause the CornerShot is awesome or the BFG9000 is drool-worthy, doesn't mean it fits. Fallout has futuristic weaponry, but it makes sense in the time frame.

Style: The futuristic is debated better here. Laser and plasma weaponry has the "50's-60's sci-fi envisionment sci-fi feel to it. It's hi-tech, without being "high-tech". So, throwing in weaponry of this variety is great. The contrast between older firearms and the odd style of the energy weapons paints this amazing picture, showing the contrast between the world at the time, and all that it devolved into. It's those small tinges of style and feeling that add to the feel of the Fallout universe.

Use: This is the most simplistic category. Yeah, a Master Key shotgun attachment is cool, but what use does it have in this game? And, could it even be implemented? Keep what works, and add more of it, and take a few leaps in between. We don't need another cheap action thriller with all the latest tech that isn't even used in all of these situations. We have tons of games with all of that already.

Those are my thoughts on this question. I want the weaponry to fit in the game. It doesn't have to fire the right round or sound perfect, it just has to fit. Now, accuracy regarding the weapon would be icing on the proverbial bullet filled cake.

[A Dardzz]

First of all:
I think they HAVE to implement WWII weapons. The game's lore simply demands it! There were a lot of thompsons, BARs, MP44, Garant and Mauser rifles,... around!



Secondly:
I would love to see a lot of weapons which appear to be homemade. I'm talking about weapons you can craft yourself from other, broken guns. They could even use the schematics system on this! If you get the right pieces, you could use it on a workbench and make it into a gun.
To give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about, take a look at these two and other guns gunnars2 made for fallout 3:

http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13897
http://fallout3nexus.com/imageshare/images/1082439-1282683543.jpg


Your survival should be based on your (characters) skill. Turn some old guns, a binocular and some old junk into a great sniperrifle for example and become the fear of the wasteland! That's what fallout is about for me!!

[SexyPimpAss]

And plus if the weapons reacted like they did in real life, there would be certain weapons that would always be the best choice to have, rather than each one having strengths and weaknesses.

But if the strenghts and weaknesses that are implemented for "game balance" are contrived, do they serve a logical purpose other than filling any empty "spot" in the weapon hierarchy? If the weapon is modeled like the real life one, and it plays like crap, then maybe they could just find a better weapon to fit the need rather than ask us to suspend disbelief? It's a game, and I'm willing to suspend a lot of dis belief, especially for the story and setting, but if real world item are placed in the game, my disbelief need booster jets to be suspended sometimes.

No one has ever got it right, in any game to date. For example, what game have you seen where you're temporarily [or even permanently] deaf and your ears are ringing after you discharge a firearm [without plugs in or muffs on]?

I've shot a ton of weapons up to and including 81mm mortars without proper ear protection. And I've never had a problem. I said, I've never had a problem. What?
Asparagus? What did you say?

How would that have been developed yet? Look at the timeframe and such, and think of how the world and universe of Fallout is. Itsan alternate reality, so you can't put in some of these weapon systems.

I might remember some Popular Mechanics or Popular Science issues from the '50s that showed the then idea of what fleets of pilotless planes and rockets would look like. There had already been remotely operated and guided planes and rockets by the end of WWII. As long as the "unmanned flying vehicle" was made in that vision, I really wouldn't have much of a problem with it.

Although he actually did mention the BFR at some point, sooo...hmmm. Okay, I'll stick with the BFR and call it "wishful thinking." And hope it's the 10" version, like mine.

On a technicalilty, ReinBach gets the 1886. He called it first, I think. Anyways, the BFR is way cooler and I still have massive gun envy. You're my new role model.

Those are my thoughts on this question. I want the weaponry to fit in the game. It doesn't have to fire the right round or sound perfect, it just has to fit. Now, accuracy regarding the weapon would be icing on the proverbial bullet filled cake.

I guess my position is the closest to yours, Kiebler. First and foremost, it must fit the setting and story. Secondly, make them as realistic as gameplay and technological/time constraints can make them.

First of all:
I think they HAVE to implement WWII weapons. The game's lore simply demands it! There were a lot of thompsons, BARs, MP44, Garant and Mauser rifles,... around!

They don't HAVE to. What if instead of many of those weapons you mention, rather than going into surplus storage, 3rd world use or hitting the surplus sales market, all those guns were subject to arms reductions that occured in the alternate timeline and not ours. A whole bunch of the weapons that did go into longterm storage did end up getting destroyed. The ones that hit the surplus market at some point are the ones that survived. It's also over 300 years since all those weapons were in general issue. Finding some of them in working order is not only believable, but inevitable, but finding tons of them laying all over the place would be like everyone on your block today owning a flintlock rifle. Don't get me wrong. I really wanna shoot a raider's head off with an 1895 Winchsester-Lee Navy. I'm just saying that rational logic sides more on a lower prevalence of these weapons than on a higher prevalence.

[Juan Cerda]

While I'm sure, somewhere, somehow, somebody's chambered an '03 in .45-70 (it would definitely have to be rebarreled), we're betting on which gun Josh chambered in .45-70 Government. That was 3 official rounds before the .30-06 that most all '03s were chambered in, which I'm sure you know, just saying for those that don't. Before the .30-06, was the .30-03, the round that was introduced with the Springfield. It was the second smokeless round in US inventory, but it was round nose. They put a pointy (spitzer, which is really bad german meaning pointed, but is really closer to sharpener) bullet in it and it became the .30-06. Before the .30-03 (also called the .30-45 in the old nomenclature of caliber-powder charge as opposed to the new nomenclature of caliber-year introduced) was the .30-40 Krag, the round used in the Krag-Jorgensen rifles. The 30-40 Krag replaced the .45-70.

You can put the 5 NCR dollars down on the '03 Springfield to be chambered in .45-70 if you want, but I'd hate to take your money that easy. I'll try to think of what other rifles were commonly chambered in .45-70 so those of you not familiar with it can give me your money too get in on the action too.


Oh and PS - isn't the '03 Springfield already with us in a way? Since most modern hunting rifles are based on the mauser style action, as was the '03, you could almost say the hunting rifle is a sporterized version of an '03 if you wanted to.

i wasnt paying attention.

i thought you guys were talking about favorite rifles.

sorry

[Makenna Nomad]

i wasnt paying attention.

i thought you guys were talking about favorite rifles.

sorry

I know. As we used to say during my time up arounds Boston, "I was just bustin' you balls." In atonement, I will simply award you the Springfield that does shoot the .45-70. The 1873 Allin-conversion Springfield rifle. Most commonly known as the "Trapdoor Springfield". (well, at least one of them. there were like, 20 or something Allin conversion rifles made at the Springfield Armory from 1860-1890)

Me - Ruger No.1
Reinbach - Winchester 1886
Hammer - BFR
Shoot2 - 1874 Sharps
Spectre - 1873 Trapdoor Springfield
Cookie - Winchester 1895


As far as I can tell, that still leaves the 1885 Winchester, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1885_Remington-Lee, the http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/1009/chafreese.html, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps-Borchardt_Model_1878, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Model_1895#1895_Models, http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/images/kansas_city/antique/970583_coltfkln_07l_kc.jpg, http://www.militaryrifles.com/Peabody&M/Peab&Mart.htm, http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1729&cid=9, http://http://www.chuckhawks.com/remington_no1_rifles.htm,

[Quick draw II]

To add fuel to the fire, all "Guns" ammo types but one are used by at least two weapons.

[Lisa Robb]

To add fuel to the fire, all "Guns" ammo types but one are used by at least two weapons.

makes sense, because alot of guns use the same ammunition types even if the guns are different.

[Alan Cutler]

To add fuel to the fire, all "Guns" ammo types but one are used by at least two weapons.

Ok. I love a puzzle. So in order of diameter:

.177" BB gun.
.22" Varmint Rifle, Silences Pistiol and Silences SMG
5mm Gatling Gun
5.56mm Assault Carbine, Assault Rifle, LMG
.308" Hunting Rifle, Sniper
.32" Pistol???????
.357" Lever and pistol
9mm Pistol, SMG
10mm Pistol, SMG
.44" Lever and pistol
.45-70 ?????
12.7mm Pistol
.50" Anti-materiel
20GA Lever and Over-under
12GA ???????

Holy Crap. Unless you moved the mini-gun that's the one. Either that or the 12.7. That means the .50BMG has 2 guns. That means the .45-70 has two guns. Or maybe the 12.7 has two guns. Wait! You are counting the .50MG and the 12.7mm as TWO different ammo types, right? This means that there is EITHER a .50 Machine Gun OR a 12.7mm Revolver! But at least one.

[KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler]

To add fuel to the fire, all "Guns" ammo types but one are used by at least two weapons.

I'm guessing (hoping) that one is the Fatman.

[Hot]

With the .50 ammo I'd like to see something like the Hand Cannon It's like a super magnum!

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/handcannon_7843.JPG

http://www.villainsource.com/images/jesuschrist.jpg

No scope though, A Nice contrast to the anti material gun.

[Princess Johnson]

I'm guessing (hoping) that one is the Fatman.

Wait. That's in Explosives. But you did just remind me. Josh, you're not counting Uniques as a different weapons? I have to assume you're not.

With the .50 ammo I'd like to see something like the Hand Cannon It's like a super magnum!

That's what I'm saying. But it's be in 12.7, a pistol round, not .50MG. Think of it as a Smith & Wesson 500 or BFR chambered in .50AE.

[Rebekah Rebekah Nicole]

I'm guessing (hoping) that one is the Fatman.

That weapon isn't under the guns category.

[Tessa Mullins]

But if the strenghts and weaknesses that are implemented for "game balance" are contrived, do they serve a logical purpose other than filling any empty "spot" in the weapon hierarchy? If the weapon is modeled like the real life one, and it plays like crap, then maybe they could just find a better weapon to fit the need rather than ask us to suspend disbelief? It's a game, and I'm willing to suspend a lot of dis belief, especially for the story and setting, but if real world item are placed in the game, my disbelief need booster jets to be suspended sometimes.

I think it personally depends on how the weapon is implemented into the game that justifies if it's just their to add more weapons to the game, or if it actually is a useful weapon. In my mind, all the weapons in the game should have strengths and weaknesses that makes each one useful in certain situations, but others in other situations. For instance the anti-materiel rifle may be powerful, but it's kickback and bolt action style makes each shot in between much longer than say the hunting rifle. So while the anti-materiel rifle would be a wise choice for stopping power, the hunting rifle may be a better option because although it's weaker it's basically as accurate (assuming it plays out like FO3's hunting rifle, just with a bigger bullet this time) and it can fire faster. And that half a second can count in certain situations.

And my example of the sawn off shotgun was meant to insinuate that I don't want any weapons to be crap. The sawn off has two shots per "clip" (that's the only word I can think of that would work in this example, since it's a break action shotgun, not a semi-automatic with a magazine). Because of it's smaller clip size and it's wider inaccuracy at farther distances, at close ranges it should deliver a moderate punch of damage (because with a game that has a weight system, lighter weapons should not be as strong as heavier weapons, thus the sawn off should not be more powerful than the entire clip of a regular shotgun). The suspension of disbelief should only apply to things such as "why the hell didn't my .50 caliber rifle not just blow that super mutant into a thousand pieces?!".

And I don't blame you for needing more incentive to suspend your belief that this weapon should be this weak, to a degree. Like I said before, things like the bullets not operating like their real world counterparts (a .22 will bounce around your skull, tearing apart your brain. A 5.56 has a tumble effect that'll bounce around and tear apart multiple organs and blood vessels. A .50 BMG round will blow a huge part of you apart. Etc.) should be disbelieved to ensure that there's still balance. BUT having a weapon incredibly weak and without virtually any strengths serves no purpose to the game. Like for instance the .32 pistol did a mere 6 damage, but it was a pretty rare weapon (probably because no one in the wasteland would want to use that piece of crap). That doesn't clash very well when your starting weapon and one of the most common weapons in the game, is stronger than a much rarer weapon.

[dell]

OOOOOOOO SNAP!

I almost forgot about this baby!

PTRS-41

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRS-41

http://i38.tinypic.com/ieqyo6.jpg

[WYatt REed]

Ok. I love a puzzle. So in order of diameter:

.177" BB gun.
.22" Varmint Rifle, Silences Pistiol and Silences SMG
5mm Gatling Gun
5.56mm Assault Carbine, Assault Rifle, LMG
.308" Hunting Rifle, Sniper
.32" Pistol???????
.357" Lever and pistol
9mm Pistol, SMG
10mm Pistol, SMG
.44" Lever and pistol
.45-70 ?????
12.7mm Pistol
.50" Anti-materiel
20GA Lever and Over-under
12GA ???????

Holy Crap. Unless you moved the mini-gun that's the one. Either that or the 12.7. That means the .50BMG has 2 guns. That means the .45-70 has two guns. Or maybe the 12.7 has two guns. Wait! You are counting the .50MG and the 12.7mm as TWO different ammo types, right? This means that there is EITHER a .50 Machine Gun OR a 12.7mm Revolver! But at least one.

Actually I'm sure the 12.7mm pistol utilizes the .50 ammo. Josh said before that he hadn't created a .50 BMG round AND a .50 AE round as it would confuse a lot of people who are unfamiliar with guns outside of Call of Duty (and that's not meant to offend anyone who plays COD. I just happen to know so many people that are always talking about the TDI Vector, ACR, FAMAS, etc. but don't seem to know of any other weapons aside from the ones that have been in Modern Warfare 1 or 2).

[Emmi Coolahan]

Like for instance the .32 pistol did a mere 6 damage, but it was a pretty rare weapon (probably because no one in the wasteland would want to use that piece of crap). That doesn't clash very well when your starting weapon and one of the most common weapons in the game, is stronger than a much rarer weapon.

I'm mostly agreeing with you, basically playing devil's advocate, and the last thing you brought up makes the same basic point as the sawn-off. Hell might as well add the chinese POStol also. From a game balance and even remotely distant realism point, what were these things doing in the game?
As a counter point to that, though, how should you handle the .44 Lever action and the Hunting rifle. At close ranges both rounds have close enought ballistics to call it a draw. The big difference is velocity and thereby both penetration and longer range. The .308 starts to own the .44 Mag out past 200 yards. But for the need to play to the lowest common denominator (the player that has little knowledge of guns) the intrinsinc differences between these rounds were blurred. I understand the decision Josh had to make here. I don't know if I agree with it. The .308 should penetrate DT much better than .44 and the .44 should explode soft target like jello while the .308 goes right through them.

Actually I'm sure the 12.7mm pistol utilizes the .50 ammo. Josh said before that he hadn't created a .50 BMG round AND a .50 AE round as it would confuse a lot of people who are unfamiliar with guns outside of Call of Duty (and that's not meant to offend anyone who plays COD. I just happen to know so many people that are always talking about the TDI Vector, ACR, FAMAS, etc. but don't seem to know of any other weapons aside from the ones that have been in Modern Warfare 1 or 2).

I read from Josh's statements that he will call the ammo for the pistol 12.7mm ammo and the ammo for the AMR will be called .50MG. I understood from his post that the change was to name the .50AE as a metric round to avoid the confusion of having two .50 cal ammos in the game. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to go read his post again.