Isn't Jyggalag a decent guy? Prince of Order seems like he can't be that bad...right?

Uuuuhh, are you kidding me??? Last time I checked, liver failure can be considered "hazardous". Drinking enough to make yourself black out and wander the dangerous wilderness of Skyrim is probably going to do liver damage. Bartering drunkenly with a giant to pawn off stolen goods seems like a bad idea too (make the wrong offer, get sent into low orbit by his hammer), and marrying a treacherous and dangerous hagraven probably isn't too good for you either... Any more to drink, and you'd probably have tried riding Alduin or something, and we all know how that would end!

This.

You can join hircine as a werewolf in Bloodmoon, but you are still made part of the hunt because he thinks you'd be good prey.

Meridia. Regardless of her indifference to the lives of mortals, her hatred of the undead ultimately makes them safer.

What about those who chose undeath in order to protect others?

A perfect example of this is a character from the Bloodmoon expansion: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Draugr_Lord_Aesliip


Meridia would kill this Aesliip without a second thought on the matter. ALL undead are monsters to her, ALL undead must be purged for her to be content. However, Aesliip's premature death would be devastating for the mortals who inhabited Solstheim as they would soon all be massacred by the army of atronachs below the lake.
This is one of Skyrim's flaws on the matter, all the undead you meet (excluding a single one from DG) are doing so "for teh evulz", if they even talk about it at all. I have yet to meet one who is doing so for the greater good.

Being undead is not inherently evil or good in TES, even the process of lichdom is pretty neutral towards other people if the mage takes the right approach (it's merely trapping their soul in a temporary container, then moving back to the now-dead body). Though the majority of those portrayed in the games tend to skew opinion negatively on the matter (mainly because of the sheer amount of [censored] that chose it).

That's ... that's just Azura playin up The Oracle to The Nerevarine's Neo. I mean, if she tries really, reeeeeally hard --- more precisely, many, many times --- in theory, the cosmos would burp up a Proper Incarnate. And the Kalpas? That's just the Machines/Dagoth/Temple burning down Zion. Over and Over again.

I'm sure the Oracle meant well. I mean, really. Meridia? Even after her child-avatar gave us the psychedelic-rainbow-denouement in Matrix Revolutions? The Oraclezura just stared all ... awkwardly happy notquite ... and Magnus the Architect walked away. Jumped ship. Again.

It's all about trade-offs. While there may be a small number of benevolent undead, the overall influence of undead in general is probably not a net positive and the indiscriminate elimination of undead undoubtedly solves more problems than it creates. Moreover, Meridia operates through agents who themselves have more incentive to target problem undead than they do those rare undead that may be serving a useful purpose, so her influence is probably a net benefit to mortals.

If Meridia could easily eliminate all undead, she would have done it long ago.

Yet only warned her pets, not everyone else. And she cursed the entire race for not falling in line with her diva expectations.

I read a fanfiction depiction of Azura that strikes me as beautifully accurate. She's like a child with a sadistic streak. She loves her dollies, but then you turn around and find her ripping limbs off and saying the doll made her do it by being bad. Yep. That's Azura.

I think that's Malacath.

None of them are good people you want to invite to your potlucks.

To be honest, I'm rather fond of Malacath. Comparing with Mehrunes Dagon, the latter is blunt everything. Ambition Destruction Revolution Take-what-you-want Do-what-you-please. Malacath is simply, BE STRONG. OR I EXPLODE YOU.

Well that's sort of like the Vigilants of Stendarr saying "come to the light or we'll drag you to it." So I'd say, yes, Order can be bad.

Everyone seems to like Meridia- I wonder why she or at least her servants allied with the Ayleids against the humans in the slave rebellion.

I'm just suspicious of all of them. Peryite worries me. He's supposed to be set to be the head of the next kalpa, and he's depicted in dragon form- maybe since we kicked Alduin down the road, the end of the world that Esbern and others predicted will be Peryite's plague rather than your usual world eating.

Now I cannot unsee "Meridia with daedric laser beams." Wasn't there an obscure lore thread somewhere, with all the magna-ge and such named under printer and pixelcolor coding? I'm reminded of that, now that we're mentioning odder ideas.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1339845-magne-ge-pantheon/

I'd say that's a rather gentle way of describing the Prince of Order.

Jyggy seems to be the ultimate agent of Anuic ideal, everything must be the same, nothing can be different. Anything that is different must be changed in order to make it the same, or it must be removed. That is why the Isles take on the crystalline structure that they do towards the end of the Greymarch, because Jyg is making them identical. Well, he's making them part of him, therefore forming them to a cohesive singular entity (the realm IS the Prince afterall).

It's less "drag" more "break you into smallest unit, rebuild you to be identical to everything else and turn the 'you' of you into me in the process".

Where Peryite is an organic, fluid and benevolent order, Jyggalag is the cold hard order of mathematics.
He reminds me of the Auditors of Reality from the Discworld novels.

Strange definition most of you have of trustowrthy...I say that anyone who puts faith is any but Sithis is doing a grave mistake but I would consider Mehunes Dagon, Sangune and Hircine the most trustworthy by a mile, they are straightfoward with their approach to deling with humans at least, none of that self benign righteousness
As a side note I was wondering, Molag Bal made vampires, Hircine made werewolves, which daedra helped out on the creation of undead and especially liches? Plus since undead, vampires, liches and werewolves dont cooperate among themselves does this means that daedra fight among themselves?

So do the Eight. If something happens that's outside of their sphere of influence, then they really don't care about it at all.


They've tried that before. It didn't work then, it won't work now.


Talos took over the Mantle of Lorkhan/Shor. If (like Mankar Camoran alludes to in Oblivion) the Divines are nothing more than glorified Daedric Princes, then Lorkhan/Shor/Talos is the Deity of this realm.

By Lore, it was Lorkhan who tricked the Eight into sacrificing of themselves into creating Mundus. By doing so, they gained a small aspect of mortality because so much of their power was sacrificed for Mundus's existence. it's because of this that Divines can be killed, but no Daedra, even Princes, can ever be killed.

To stifle argument revolving around the Daedric realms for each Prince, they used much less of "themselves" in the creation of their Realms, therefore even if you "defeat" a daedric Prince, they never die. They just get chucked into the Waters of Oblivion to be reborn again at a later time.

undead are a necromancer's creation, not a deadric princes, and yes, deadra fight among each other (you thought they were friends? ha! look at the golden saints and dark seducers, they are bitter rivals, the dremora are split into different clans who all choose to serve one prince or another based on their wishes, the princes have their own enemies, ect ect)

The Daedric Lords that are not wholly evil are Azura, Meridia, Nocturnal, Sheogorath[just incredibly insane, maybe his mother dropped him on his head when he was baby?], and Mephala.

A Golden Saint is a Daedra? *Zips up pants* Time for you to go Christy.

Keep it unzipped anyways.

Come back Christy! I love you! *Zips pants down again*

Molag Bal wants to violate you...not joking.

Hircine wants to make you a werebeast (werewolf/wereboar and such) so you can experience an amazing afterlife.

Hircine is the least hazardous imo, he makes you super strong/fast by granting you the beast blood while alive and if you fall while being of his children you get an amazing afterlife that makes even Nords question if they want to go to Sovngarde or the hunting grounds, a bonus of going to the hunting grounds is..everytime the Bloodmoon occurs you get to live once again to hunt with Hircine!..well only in your beast form but still..oh and it only lasts as long as the bloodmoon lasts. (Hounds of Hircine in Bloodmoon are examples of this, Solstheim was flooded with packs of werewolfies slaughtering the skaal (nords) who called that land home..basically you get to invade Tamriel with Hircine every Bloodmoon in great numbers with your fellow werebeasts and taste the blood and flesh of the living once more for the glory of your master Hircine.)

Nocturnal wants to just make you a shadow..literally.

Azura wants you to become a part of the twilight.

Sanguine just wants to party hard.

Namira lives in a realm coated in the dead...if I recall correctly anyway.

If Meridia senses any evil in you she'll banish you instantly from her realm and you'll just cease to be.

Boethia's realm..well idk, never wanted to know what hers/his is like.

Meridia.

If you're not undead(vampire), not a necromancer, and you do everything she tells you to do.


Nope. Insanity just comes with the job. "He" is perfectly sane depending on the character you're playing in Oblivion.

That's a bad thing?

Haha, nice. Though I think all that gluttony and debauchery would wear on the body after a while.