and this mod is 100% what the OP should install. I got tired of easy dragon fights-you really need to see how effective this mod is. The fights are long, the dragons smarter and far more deadly.

Upping the diff just makes the fights longer but the AI is still lousy. If you want a true fight you need the get the mod off Nexus.

Oh I agree with the dragon behavior, unfortunately I'm on xbox so I can't have mods.

Upping the difficulty makes everything harder and doesn't fix dragons so they are more deadly. If you're on the PC I can't argue with a good mod for the OP ...

The question is, what is in it for them to aid the world eater? Their eventual fate is to end up in the belly of the beast.

Also, Alduin views all mortal races with contempt and being able to resurrect dragons means he already has unlimited subordinates. He doesn't need anyone to "open the gates of oblivion" for him.

Anyway, on tropic, I have posted the results of a few NPC fights below:

1. Ancient dragon (Dragonrended)
2. Draugr Death Overlord (Level 45, strongest version)
3. Demora Lord (Summoned)

In dragon vs draugr, 1 v 1, dragon wins with 50% health remaining.

In draugr vs demora. 1 v 1, draugr wins with 60% health remaining

In draugr vs demora. 1 v 2, demora wins with one death and 70% health remaining

In dragon vs demora, 1 v 2, dragon wins with 80% health remaining.

From these, we can say that actually the power of ancient dragons befit the legends of their power. It is only the less dragons are too weak and certain Dovahkiin builds too strong.

Dinosaurs weren't smart, so why should Dragons be? They surley have a brain size of a Banana just like a T-Rex

Dragons are smart though. To put things in perspective, us humans and elves are console players, and the dragons are the pc "master race". They are capable of speech as exemplified in the Thu'um, and the ability to speak in English. Dragons are also capable of independant thought, like Odahviing. Alduin and some other dragon at Kynesgrove had a conversation.

The difficulty about this thread I believe is to seperate out what the real problem,if any, there are with the Dragons. I'm a major fan of dragons and have been for more years than most people where alive in this forum.

My age aside, there are a number of things that the dragons do that are nice:
a) Their look and feel is exactly as I expect it - Great job on the dragon designs. The visual is good, they move good, and the sound is great.
I like that the dragons actually HAVE a fly by attack.
c) I love that you can change the difficulty level - and on default setting - elder dragons are harder than basic dragons - all players are not he same. Those who complain on this factor should up the difficulty and think about what they would change and how it would be perceived in the game.
d) I think the balance off what they can do and dont do is good. They could be better but I think I would have to think about the impact to the game of many of the changes I suggest next and I know the designers must have struggled with many of them to come to the design they have now. They must have thought through all the things people have talked about in this forum before coming to the design they have today.

Less Positive feedback:
a) I have not encountered a dragon who properly uses their tail correctly. Tail swipes are a great addition to ground combat and a patch I would love to see. Tail swipes that might knock me off the top of a cliff would be excellent and deserving if I was in the position for such a thing.
The same comment on the dragons claws. I have seen few claw attacks that are effective. Undead archers can drop me in a single bow shot at this difficulty but the only dragon attack that has done that to me so far is the bite attack. I'd like to see them claw at me to push me back and do damage on the ground.
c) I have not encountered a dragon who will grab a character on the ground - fly them high and drop them. Probably because most players in the game would meet certain death if they were allowed to do so. Plus characters cant really GRAB on to the dragon's leg to prevent it. I think the game mechanic would be difficult to do...but being able to climb up on the dragon and attack from above would be a nice way for fighters to be able to really do what they can do. Dragging a character across the ground OR just doing a fly by claw attack - if the terrain allowed it would be nice.
d) A dragon that is heavily wounded - should try to run (if they cant fly) or fly away if they can. Again, I think this is because it would be frustrating to characters who almost kill one to have it fly away and for the game to maintain which dragon has how much damage in the world. It may work if they were allowed to run when almost dead - and until their health reached a point couldnt fly.. thus allowing characters to chase them down to deliver the killing blow. Knock the character back with a tail or claw and run on the ground until they can go airborn. Even if airborn is only for a short distance to land again and rest and heal before heading up again.
e) Older dragons should have more options and be scary. Are they? Maybe - that part is debatable depending on your difficulty level. Elder dragons have on more than once swallowed and spit me out in a single bite - killing me. Nice surprise. But other surprises would be nice - they are older for a reason - show us.
f) Lack of variety in their breath weapons was a disappointment. If I have 90% protection from fire, frost and shock - the breath weapon is a no opt. It doesnt even have blow back. I think if you stand directly in the breath of an elder dragon on the ground - it should push you back. It makes it hard to see but has no resistance and thats a patch I would love to see.
g) Uber dragons - I would like to see some dragons set in caves that are special - for example, a gold dragon high in a mountain cave off the path - that can give characters the highest level spells as a mage and if threatened turns into a dragon and kicks them out of the cave - fights at +1 difficulty level and has some special breath weapon. Also add some randomness on the dragons abilities - set a list of abilities and hand them out randomly to the random dragons - add some breath weapons like lightning, acid (to destroy armor), etc and possibly have a dragon that can cast spells.

I do agree with those who have stated in the forum about people trying the difficulty levels and then think of how they could change things that wouldnt completely frustrate a player. As a designer myself, I understand the designers difficulties on how hard it is to design dragons for a game like this.

For example:
1) A dragon who could run away when near death - could frustrate players each time they get near death but run away - failing to kill them - over and over.
2) Dragons who never land - would really frustrate players who dont have range weapons.
3) Dragons that can straff a character with claws could also be frustrating
4) Dragons who can pick up a character and drop them to their death would also be frustrating

Kudos to the designers for the way they are now because there is just something satifiying about killing a dragon (the only thing is that satisfaction gets stiffled by repeativeness and since you need dragon souls - I'm not sure how that can be fixed). Tough thoughts.

Personally, for my game dragons are fine. I have to work just hard enough that I feel I earned the kill.

My problem is that they are so weak relative to other things. I killed a dragon in an awesome epic fight on a mountaintop. Then I went to open the treasure chest and a ghost came out who was 6x tougher than the dragon. I had to reload a dozen times fighting that stupid ghost and still cheated to beat him by exploiting my unkillable follower.

When I see a dragon flying overhead, I think, "Oh good! I get to fight a dragon."

When I hear a polar bear roar, I think, "[censored], I didn't see him in time. Guess I'll reload."

Landing on the ground is to accommodate melee users, and dragons being so easy is to prevent people from saying "zomg dragons are too hard, i don;t have dragon souls for my shouts GRR"

Dragons in general are not challenging enough in the way they should be. I mean sure, they could use more health and damage, etc...but that isn't the only problem.

Aside from flying, they feel the same as any other creature when you fight them, just larger. I mean, why doesn't their tail slap send us flying off our feet? Why doesn't a landing or taking off dragon send us off balance with the gusts of wind generated by their wings? Why does their roar, not give us pause? Why do they not attack us with a variety of their words of power, a language they speak naturally? Why do they just stand around while we beat on them, instead of maneuvering around us in a circle, or doing other such things?

Both of which are a mistake.

For me the only dragons that are at all easy to kill are the regular "dragons."

Elder and Ancient dragons kick my ass worse than anything else in the entire game. Blood dragons are a little annoying, but no big deal like Elder and Ancient dragons.


My only real fuss about dragons is their AI when other creatures are around. If I'm the dragonborn, wouldn't dragons kinda know that sh*t somehow? Wouldn't they want to keep focused on killing me instead of half-way through our battle deciding to fly away and attack a bear - leaving itself completely open to my own attacks?


When a dragon notices you and begins to attack you, it should focus solely on you. Other creatures and people should become non-existent to the dragon.


hmph.

Hey man, bears are way more dangerous than some stupid dragonborn.

I started playing on master difficulty not long ago and I had lots of trouble with killing the first dragon, I only use light armor 2 handed weapons and bows now and if no one would help me I would be dead right now in the game

But I guess that on the higher levels they will be easy as [censored] to kill

It's not the difficulty level that is the problem, it's how easy dragons die compared to say a troll or giant. In the videos we are led to believe dragons are uber... they swoop down and pick up a giant! That never happened to me. If they would pick up the player and drop them randomly it would be a whole new game.

I can't wait for the Creation Kit to come out so we can make them epic.

I think part of the ease of killing the regular dragons is specifically to accomadate the fact that players need dragon souls. However, I have to agree with some of the comments that blood dragons, elder dragons, etc - once activated - should seriously up the game more than they currently do at whatever level the player is playing.

Since the developers are probably reading this or people who talk to the developers are reading this - maybe they will make changes in upcoming patches to "improve" things.
Right now I just want them to fix bugs that prevent me from completing my quests first

If you are on pc then there's a mod that makes the dragons deadly.Seriosuly it took me around 20 minutes to defeat a blood dragon with this mod.

When was the last time you saw a dragon in real life? Let's lower the fanboyism a notch or two here. They're just giant lizards, really. Powerful and heavily armored, but I don't think they'd stand well against fighter jets if the Blades were able to defeat them with swords.

In the beginning, Dragons ARE to be feared. But as you become stronger, they become easier to kill. That makes sense. They have to land because not all characters use ranged combat (i.e. warriors).

What strikes me, is once they get to the ground.

They're too small?

Its symptomatic of the not particularly realistic combat, but in fighting a giant monster, I'd expect more dodging and maneuvering to be required. As is, you can just largely move to the side and hack the wing to avoid the heads attacks (or just block them) and have to stay away from the seemingly unblockable damage around the tail (which they don't try and use on you particularly).

Having to dodge or block off head/claw/tail attacks while maneuvering into range to strike the body would make things tougher. While you could still have the option of attacking outside, but for reduced damages. This chalks up a bit to them just being giant sprites (if you do manage to run under one as it lands, or wiggle in otherwise, you get stuck inside it til killing it) and the whole general combat mechanics though, and probably isn't even moddable.

did you say an M1 tank??

I really doubt a flamethrower would do much to a tank...

and I bet a SABOT round would really wreck Aludrins day too.......

Just use the Restoration Thingy. Search it up.
It makes your Alchemy stronger which allows you to make stronger potions. Example: Smithing potion can go up 1,000,000% for better Smithing creating weapons that will make damage up to 100,000 Hit Points. It can be easily done from the very beginning. That's how he defeats Dragons with no problems on {Master} Mode. I myself did this. And it's way easy for me now on {Master} mode.

Creating a Daedric Bow with a 100,000,000 Hit Point. With one single arrow will kill the dragon.

this game made a huge mistake by letting you kill a dragon right at the beginning of the game. from that point on i knew that dragons would scale and i would always be able to fight them no matter what. they should be only beatable after level 20 with help from npcs and level 30 by yourself.

they seem to be about the right difficulty on master as i dont exploit enchanting or smithing. but if i lower it to expert they become way to easy. hopefully bethesda increases dragon difficulty on expert level in a patch since i play my destruction mage characters on expert.

overall i think they should be harder and more rare. every game i have ends up having at least two dragons and usually more in certain locations like the college of winterhold.

edit: i also think it was a big mistake to give your character a certain voice power that effective against dragons. it really is OP and was just stupid to put in the first place.

Yes. It's all the console users fault. Damn them to hell!