Why are so many supporting the imperials (the empire)?

Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:17 am

You have to be fighting with honor and valor, not just slaughtering innocent people on the streets. The fact that the gods don't take sides in political struggles doesn't invalidate that.

The traditional concept of Valhalla is where warriors go to prepare for the ragnarok, the end of the world. It's a reward because it recognizes your right to be there, but it's also a recruitment and staging area and only one realm of the afterlife. The wicked are punished in the Norse afterlife, too. Just because it's not a Christian concept of heaven and hell doesn't mean it's devoid of any morality. Sheesh.

I mean, if you're a pacifist then your characterization holds true I guess. "The dark ages" was a term invented by Enlightenment historians who thought everything classical was grand and peachy and anything medieval and northern European was crude and backward. It's BS.
This^
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Louise
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:59 am

More like you're trying to make the statement "Empire == Thalmor". :laugh:
Who's going to fall for that?

The White Gold Concordant? :ermm:
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Anthony Rand
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:48 am

Ulfric Stormcloak is not a racist. He allows you to join the rebellion no matter your race.
Yet he still ignores the Gray Quarter as explained by http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Brunwulf_Free-Winter. Ulfric simply won't throw away a valuable asset for any reason. The Dark Elves in the gray quarter are just regular folk. So being a decent Jarl and paying attention to there plights isn't worth it. But you've killed half a dozen armed men escaping from Helgen, so obviously your a valuable solider.

He even allows for both Jarls to live, despite their alliance with the Empire.
. The only Jarl who won't survive the Civil War is Ulfric. The Empire lets all the former Jarls who supported Ulfric live.
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Justin Bywater
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:12 am

You have to be fighting with honor and valor, not just slaughtering innocent people on the streets. The fact that the gods don't take sides in political struggles doesn't invalidate that.

The traditional concept of Valhalla is where warriors go to prepare for the ragnarok, the end of the world. It's a reward because it recognizes your right to be there, but it's also a recruitment and staging area and only one realm of the afterlife. The wicked are punished in the Norse afterlife, too. Just because it's not a Christian concept of heaven and hell doesn't mean it's devoid of any morality. Sheesh.

I mean, if you're a pacifist then your characterization holds true I guess. "The dark ages" was a term invented by Enlightenment historians who thought everything classical was grand and peachy and anything medieval and northern European was crude and backward. It's BS.

Really? But this is TES ; so I don't really care about Valhalla.

And naming yourself the listener of the dark brotherhood to get into Sovngarde sure throws a wrench in that. :laugh:
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yermom
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:31 am

The Altmer aren't Dark Elves. Saying they aren't racist to one group doesn't erase the other. And considering Niranye was only able to rise above the rest with the help of the thieves guild before it lost its influence Is not saying much. Sure you can be Elf and have respect in Windhelm if your a criminal.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Brunwulf_Free-Winter points out Ulfrics prejustice against dark elves and argonians. That when a Nord is wronged Ulfric is quick to act but if the same thing happens to a Dark Elf he does nothing. Thus sending you on a mission to take out a criminal that freely preys on Dark Elves. And it was the old High King who welcomed the Dark Elves in.
And Ulfric who maintains the same policies that have gone on in Eastmarch for 200 years. Saying that he preserves the status quo of leaving the Dunmer to themselves does not equate to racism. If the Nords in Windhelm really only let Nords live in the upper parts of the city, they wouldn't be making distinctions about which kinds of Mer they let in. Altmer, hello?! It's not just Niranye, but also Nurelion and the couple who own the stables.

The irony is that Windhelm is a lot more "diverse" than some of the imperial areas like Solitude. Just look at Elisif's lily white court. I guess she's being diverse by keeping a Breton vampire in her household. lol
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Nathan Risch
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:51 am

Really? But this is TES ; so I don't really care about Valhalla. And naming yourself the listener of the dark brotherhood to get into Sovngarde sure throws a wrench in that. :laugh:
Sure but that only highlights the point that good and evil are not on the same playing field in TES anyway. The "aedra" sure seem kind of evil sometimes. As long as people are not using such distinctions to call the Nords more "barbaric" than any other race, it's copacetic. The post I responded to was not, however.
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:30 pm

Sure but that only highlights the point that good and evil are not on the same playing field in TES anyway. The "aedra" sure seem kind of evil sometimes. As long as people are not using such distinctions to call the Nords more "barbaric" than any other race, it's copacetic. The post I responded to was not, however.

At least you can agree the Nordic ideal of heaven is about the number of people you can butcher, right ? :laugh:

And since Ulfric claims to rule on tradition, we can expect where he'll be going right ? Might makes right.
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alicia hillier
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:42 am

Yet he still ignores the Gray Quarter as explained by http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Brunwulf_Free-Winter. Ulfric simply won't throw away a valuable asset for any reason. The Dark Elves in the gray quarter are just regular folk. So being a decent Jarl and paying attention to there plights isn't worth it. But you've killed half a dozen armed men escaping from Helgen, so obviously your a valuable solider.

. The only Jarl who won't survive the Civil War is Ulfric. The Empire lets all the former Jarls who supported Ulfric live.
He allows them to live there, inside the fortified walls of Windhelm, and doesn't force them to act as his own personal army. The rebellion is made up entirely of volunteers, and the Dunmer are not punished for their refusal to get involved. Perhaps Ulfric might have been more accommodating had the they shown interest in his goals.

You're right, the Empire doesn't kill any of the Jarls either. However, they do try to kill you in the beginning of the game, which proves they do kill innocent people. There is no such proof that Ulfric does the same (despite the fact that people claim there is, and somehow feel he's worse for having done it than the Empire).

If Alduin hadn't interfered, the Empire would have executed the only (wo)man capable of saving the entire world... and yet some of you believe they're the only ones capable of defeating the Thalmor. Hah, how laughable is that.. Hammerfell drove the Thalmor out. There is no reason Skyrim can't do the same, especially since there are those still capable of using the Voice.
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carrie roche
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:16 pm

And Ulfric who maintains the same policies that have gone on in Eastmarch for 200 years. Saying that he preserves the status quo of leaving the Dunmer to themselves does not equate to racism. If the Nords in Windhelm really only let Nords live in the upper parts of the city, they wouldn't be making distinctions about which kinds of Mer they let in. Altmer, hello?! It's not just Niranye, but also Nurelion and the couple who own the stables. The irony is that Windhelm is a lot more "diverse" than some of the imperial areas like Solitude. Just look at Elisif's lily white court. I guess she's being diverse by keeping a Breton vampire in her household. lol

A crime is committed against a Nord, Ulfric take action. Someone is preying on the Dark Elves in the Grey Quarter, Ulfric does nothing. Sorry that does equate racism. The stormcloak motto is Skyrim is for Nords only how is that NOT racist. Nurelion is an old elf, indicating he lived in Skyrim long before the great war. (depending on how long Altmer live possibly before the Eruption of Red Mountain.) We don't get a story on Ulundil and is Wife but they probably faced similar problems as Niranye's early years. Being decent to Altmer does not mean ignoring the dark elves and forcing the Argonians to live outside the city doesn't happen.
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Laura Hicks
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:39 am

A crime is committed against a Nord, Ulfric take action. Someone is preying on the Dark Elves in the Grey Quarter, Ulfric does nothing. Sorry that does equate racism. The stormcloak motto is Skyrim is for Nords only how is that NOT racist. Nurelion is an old elf, indicating he lived in Skyrim long before the great war. (depending on how long Altmer live possibly before the Eruption of Red Mountain.) We don't get a story on Ulundil and is Wife but they probably faced similar problems as Niranye's early years. Being decent to Altmer does not mean ignoring the dark elves and forcing the Argonians to live outside the city doesn't happen.
Nords join the rebellion. Dunmer do not. Skyrim is going through a tough time. Why should Ulfric waste resources helping people who do not wish to help him? By allowing them to continue living there, he's not only proving that he isn't a racist, but that he's comfortable with the fact that non-Nords are living in Skyrim, and on his doorstep no less.

The whole "Skyrim is for the Nords" thing refers to leadership. They want to rule their own land instead of following the Empire or one of its puppets and, in order to preserve that, drive out the Empire completely as well. Even after the Stormcloaks take hold of Whiterun, the alchemist is still there, despite being an Imperial from Cyrodiil, so they aren't planning on killing off every non-Nord, or even driving them out as well.
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Mylizards Dot com
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:06 am

Nords join the rebellion. Dunmer do not. Skyrim is going through a tough time. Why should Ulfric waste resources helping people who do not wish to help him? By allowing them to continue living there, he's not only proving that he isn't a racist, but that he's comfortable with the fact that non-Nords are living in Skyrim, and on his doorstep no less.
He allows them to live there, inside the fortified walls of Windhelm, and doesn't force them to act as his own personal army. The rebellion is made up entirely of volunteers, and the Dunmer are not punished for their refusal to get involved. Perhaps Ulfric might have been more accommodating had the they shown interest in his goals.
They live in his Hold they should be under his protection but they aren't. Why should the Dunmer help Ulfric when he ignores them. The Dunmer were living in Windhelm under Ulfric long before the Civil War and he ignored them. Why should they support him now? Simply being allowed to exist isn't enough for loyality.

You're right, the Empire doesn't kill any of the Jarls either. However, they do try to kill you in the beginning of the game, which proves they do kill innocent people. There is no such proof that Ulfric does the same (despite the fact that people claim there is, and somehow feel he's worse for having done it than the Empire).
Why does a SINGLE Imperial Captain condem the entire Empire? Hadvar objects to your execution and when given the opportunity releases you. And despite being technically an escaped criminal the general is perfectly happy to accept you into the Legion. Show me a government that doesn't execute innocent people and I'll show you a government that doesn't execute anyone.

If Alduin hadn't interfered, the Empire would have executed the only (wo)man capable of saving the entire world... and yet some of you believe they're the only ones capable of defeating the Thalmor. Hah, how laughable is that.. Hammerfell drove the Thalmor out. There is no reason Skyrim can't do the same, especially since there are those still capable of using the Voice.
If Ulfric hadn't started his rebellion you wouldn't have been arrested. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time simple as that.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:46 am

So Im checking out these polls that members are creating here, and I couldn't help but to see that the imperials are winning at the polls.

My question is why? Why are you supporting the very same organzation that was willing to put your head on the block and execute you in spite of your name not being on the list? That means that you were going to be innocently murdered before Alduin interupted. Remember that poor soul that was pleaing with the imperial officers that accused him of being a spy? He seemed pretty innocent to me right before the imperials killed him with arrows. I just wonder if that guy had a fair trial.

We all had this thought. Why on earth would anyone join that faction? I mean the nicest thing they did for you was promise to return your remains to wherever it is you were from. They didnt even call me by my name! "The cat" jerks. Yeah, I'm so totally going to join with the faction that will kill an innocent person. And not only that, its the sheer incompetence! Had they not wasted their time going after Nameless Stormcloak Guy, and the player character, they could have killed Ulfric!

I refuse to join such an incompetent faction.
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Dylan Markese
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:00 am

The reason why I choose the Empire is because I admire what it represents, and what it can become again. The signing of the White Gold Concordat was unfortunate, but necessary. Bravery and Honor are all well and good, but sometimes Cunning and Patience are more appropriate, something that the Nords don't quite understand.

Still, I don't blame them for rebelling. It's certainly understandable from their point of view and I respect them more for it. But the Nords are in no shape to rule themselves, nor fend off a full fledged Thalmor invasion.

And even assuming that the Empire will fall in this Era, I would still choose it, because of one mans memory, and his name was Martin Septim.
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April
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:55 pm

The reason why I choose the Empire is because I admire what it represents, and what it can become again. The signing of the White Gold Concordat was unfortunate, but necessary. Bravery and Honor are all well and good, but sometimes Cunning and Patience are more appropriate, something that the Nords don't quite understand.

Still, I don't blame them for rebelling. It's certainly understandable from their point of view and I respect them more for it. But the Nords are in no shape to rule themselves, nor fend off a full fledged Thalmor invasion.

And even assuming that the Empire will fall in this Era, I would still choose it, because of one mans memory, and his name was Martin Septim.

Best reason for joining the Empire ever. :biggrin:

Still going Stormcloak though, just consider me one of those rats abandoning the ship as it sinks into Oblivion.
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The Time Car
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:58 am

I wanted to do both sides of the rebellion, but i have a hard time joining the Imperial side for serveral reasons.

First and foremost they tried to murder me for no reason at all. I'm surprised how many people don't see this as being a big deal, but to me its a huge deal. How can i support them, when they randomly murder their citizens. How many other innocents have been killed cause there were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and weren't lucky enough to have a dragon attack free them.

Second, The treaty with the Thalmor. Say what you want about "biding time and gathering strength". They fact is the Empire took the cowards way out when they signed that treaty. Now they Thalmor are using that treaty to try and meddle in everything and the Empire is too scared to do anything about it.


Sure Ulfric svcks, and i don't like him, but i know he's not a coward.
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Bird
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:28 am

They live in his Hold they should be under his protection but they aren't. Why should the Dunmer help Ulfric when he ignores them. The Dunmer were living in Windhelm under Ulfric long before the Civil War and he ignored them. Why should they support him now? Simply being allowed to exist isn't enough for loyality.
I wouldn't blame Ulfric entirely. If you've ever played Morrowind, you know what the Dunmer are like.


Why does a SINGLE Imperial Captain condem the entire Empire? Hadvar objects to your execution and when given the opportunity releases you. And despite being technically an escaped criminal the general is perfectly happy to accept you into the Legion. Show me a government that doesn't execute innocent people and I'll show you a government that doesn't execute anyone.
General Tullius is present and doesn't seem to object at all. And no, you aren't an escaped criminal. You were merely crossing the border from Cyrodiil (as it's implied).


If Ulfric hadn't started his rebellion you wouldn't have been arrested. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time simple as that.
How many others do you think were in the wrong place and the wrong time as well? The Empire is falling apart. Skyrim may have been part of it once before, but I should think that the Nords fighting for their independence after having their religion outlawed by the Empire is completely justified. It is their land. The Empire is not defending them from the Thalmor, but giving into their demands and allowing them to walk around freely. That's justification for a rebellion, no matter the reasoning behind the Empires actions.

Skyrim is better off following in the footsteps of Hammerfell, and Ulfric cannot be blamed for the Empire trying to execute you.

But the Nords are in no shape to rule themselves, nor fend off a full fledged Thalmor invasion.
Why is that? The coming of the Dragonborn is enough motivation for them to fend off the Thalmor. Not to mention that, should Ulfric become High King, their leader would also have the power of the Voice. The College of the Voice could very well have been restored, and the Nords could very well have become a force to be reckoned with once more.
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Claire
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:31 pm

Best reason for joining the Empire ever. :biggrin:

Still going Stormcloak though, just consider me one of those rats abandoning the ship as it sinks into Oblivion.

Fair enough, as much as I love the Empire, I think its time is nearing its end.
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CArla HOlbert
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:59 pm

Severus Tullius was an Etruscun king in the very esrly Roman monarchy before the republuc. I bet they got the name from him.
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Sherry Speakman
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 pm

I wouldn't blame Ulfric entirely. If you've ever played Morrowind, you know what the Dunmer are like.
And the Dunmer in skyrim two centuries later are nothing like that.

General Tullius is present and doesn't seem to object at all. And no, you aren't an escaped criminal. You were merely crossing the border from Cyrodiil (as it's implied).
He's at Helgan but he's not overseeing you as your being brought off the wagon. I doubt he can hear what the Captain is saying. You escaped from custody so "technically" you are an escaped criminal he doesn't even recognize you unless you point it out. If he actually thought you should have been executed you wouldn't be able to join the legion.

How many others do you think were in the wrong place and the wrong time as well? The Empire is falling apart. Skyrim may have been part of it once before, but I should think that the Nords fighting for their independence after having their religion outlawed by the Empire is completely justified. It is their land. The Empire is not defending them from the Thalmor, but giving into their demands and allowing them to walk around freely. That's justification for a rebellion, no matter the reasoning behind the Empires actions.

If the Nords just practiced the worship in secret they could just wait a while longer for the next war. Then they can worship publically again rather then weaken both the Emprie and Skyrim. What happens to the dragonborn sounds fairly realistic in a medieval society.
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:13 am

Sure Ulfric svcks, and i don't like him, but i know he's not a coward.

This could not be more true.

Thanks! :happy:
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Queen of Spades
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:50 am

One officer singular, decides to execute you along with the rest. If Hadvar was in charge you wouldn't have been on the block. As it happened the Captain in charge was an A-Hole.
General Tullius was present and had no problem with it, so it wasn't a single officer.
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Jesus Sanchez
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:40 am

Well that prisoner Lokir was a horse thief. I think that's punishable by death. lol Also he was crossing the border to Hammerfell.

Now for the main character. It's the same crossing the border, but i still think what the Imperials do is cruel. To chop up heads? I really never thought the Imperials would such a thing. I would have accepted it from the Orcs or .. Dark Elves. But Imperials?
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Tarka
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:18 am

Well that prisoner Lokir was a horse thief. I think that's punishable by death. lol Also he was crossing the border to Hammerfell.

Now for the main character. It's the same crossing the border, but i still think what the Imperials do is cruel. To chop up heads? I really never thought the Imperials would such a thing. I would have accepted it from the Orcs or .. Dark Elves. But Imperials?


Even from the first few steps in Skyrim, it seems to suggest that the Empire no longer cares about it's denizens. Only maintaining (damnit that doesn't look right) the delicate stipulations of the WGC.

The Empire is clearly in shatters, and for me... will not survive Skyrim.

The Empire has betrayed it's historically loyal and proud citizens, and now incompetence... or worse...compliance with the Thalmor twist your arm in the direction of the Stormcloaks.

The only reason to support the Thalmor... I mean Empire.... in Skyrim is nostalgia.
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:27 am

Simple: The Stormcloaks are racist Nord-Supremacists.
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:16 am

Fair enough, as much as I love the Empire, I think its time is nearing its end.

See people?

This is called reasonable disagreement.

+50 to you Aradal, you get a free pass on any argument from me in the future.

*Edit*

By which I mean I will no longer comment in that thread after you cash it in. :blink:
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kennedy
 
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