I choose Empire just so I don't have to take over whiterun. I like how it is, and feel bad when I'm forced to kick out the most caring and faithful Jarl(I mean he even allows a priest to speak out about Talos and has his guards protect him, evident at how they attack you if you hit him). If there was a way you could convince him to join Ulfric then I would go with the stormcloaks, but usually I just remain neutral.

maybe the elves and argonians should make wise life choices and use their skills to improve their lives and world around them. start by, you know, not living in slums. buy some land and build a worthy town. they aren't forced to live in squalor. they aren't chained to their slums. build something better. move somewhere better.

take control of their own lives and improve them.

ulfric stands for honor, the empire stands for law.

Someone has been reading the RNC's talking points again...

Jesus I just couldn't help myself.

Unless that law happens to interfere with thier agenda.

The treaty allows the Thalmor to stomp out the worship of Talos. Legally the Thalmor are allowed to do this. The law exists only because of the treaty, and at this point neither side is ready to a void it. The Empire isn't helping the Thalmor either.


The Dunmer have nothing to do with the Thalmor period, and I've yet to see the Dunmer be racist in Skyrim.

The Argonians and the Dark Elves don't do that because they aren't allowed. They can't move elsewhere because they don't have the money.


Winning the duel DOES NOT. Give Ulfric the position of HIgh King ONLY the moot can do that. Stop making things up




So basically Skyrim can only win against the Thalmor because the Thalmor would need to beat the Emprie first? Sailing around shouldn't be much of a problem. If Skyrim is strong enough to stand against the Thalmor then Skyrim with The Empire has even better odds. And when the second war comes the reasons dividing the stormcloaks from the emprie just about disappear.


He talks on the ride over.

You know what you all are forgetting, that Ulfric is being played as is the empire. This is all part of the plan the Thalmor have. Ulfric was captured by Thalmor at one point its why he hates them. They brain washed him to meet their own ends. I.e they started the civil war between the nords and empire to weaken both. They want to start the destruction of man by destroying the home and birth ground of man. Its information found in the Thalmor stronghold. My guess is Akatosh and Talos will be appearing very soon.

i thank god i'm no dnc.

edit- and they don't have the money because they make poor life choices and don't take resposibility and control of their own lives. they aren't in jail. they aren't tied to the slums. get and up and do something about it.

Ahh.. touche. Law over compassion, gotcha.


I know right? Donkeys just don't have juevos.

They are tied to the slums because they are forced to live there. The the beast races are forbidden from even living in the city at all.
The dragonborn being a single exception. The fact is the dark elves ARE tied to the slums. Saying they aren't doesn't change that fact.


No to preserve the treaty so the Empire can recover and win the next war, as opposed to the Thalmor destroying the Empire can getting to wipe out Talos worshipers anyway. And likely barge into peoples Houses which thus far they aren't allowed to do without proof.

The Empire has delegitimized itself by banning a religion. More than a religion even, it's part of the culture.

For that act alone the Empire needs to go.

All hail to Ulfric!

I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords.

In Skyrim no, but the race as a whole was always xenophobic and racist. The only reason their not now is because the tables have turned and their now the 'outsiders'. Whilst the Dunmer themselves have nothing to do with the Thalmor, people likely see it as a generalization. Their elves all the same. The nords almost always say 'elves' not 'the Thalmor' and the hatered of Elves runs deep ever since the Night of Tears.


Perhapse you should read into the lore a bit more, because when Ulfric challenged the High King to the duel he won the right to rule Skyrim. It is honored, ancient tradition that if the High King is defeated in the duel the victor has right to the thrown. Do not tell me I'm making things up, because I'm not and I can guarnatee you can not find one thing I've made up. In fact, I challenge you to head on over to the lore fourm and ask around because I know I'm not. Its mentioned explicitly in game. It gives him right to the throne, the only reason it didn't this time was because the Empire's involvment.


Hate to break to you but sailing a fleet that far isn't possible without supply ports, in which the Thalmor have none on that side of Tamriel. Logistically, you speak of an impossibility. The point I made is that the Thalmor simply can't go 'oh no, time to go to war again' because their still hurt from the Great War and their simply not in the position to run off to war on whim.


No he doesn't talk on the way over. He's bound and gagged.

edit: I'll just say we clearly are on opposite sides of the fence here with our own different opinions on the matter. I say we'll just have to agree to disagree because all were really doing is running in circles. I can always respect somene who stand for their ideals even if they differ from mine.

dnc's aren't realistic and live in dreamland.

They're giving them access to territory and not interfering in their activities, even so mildly as to ask for the release of prisoners. They bring Elenwen to the cease fire negotiation and insist she has a right to be there.

If you talk to the Dunmer farm worker in Windhelm, he says his family despises him and his sister for working for Nords.

The Altmer seem to be doing alright for themselves in Windhelm.

Cyrodiil and Skyrim can fight as free nations in alliance, they don't need to have one ruling over the other. Skyrim ruling itself without interference from Cyrodiil will still be an issue.

Ulfric never talks until after the dragon attack.

The Altmer own houses in the other districts, and the Hlaalus own a farm outside the city. Niranye says the Dunmer are too proud and naive to realize how things are. The fact that they are given a district inside the city walls, given that they owe no fealty, is already a pretty big deal in a medievalesque society where fortification was expensive and scarce. That was apparently part of the boon given the Dunmer after the Vvardenfell disaster.

I personally feel that if anyone has the strongest claim to the Throne of High King its the Dragonborn, not only this but the Dragonborn by birthright is Emperor. So in my mind, that a nord (probably canon) dragonborn is born and is revealed in skyrim is no mistake. Talos Akatosh and Kyne know what they are doing. The dragonborn will lead a war against the Dominion. Dragons came back, but does no one wonder to what end? Alduin dies, dragons still remain. That means in my mind, that the Dragonborn will use the dragons possibly in an alliance to decimate the Thalmor. This is why the Thalmor are worried of the dragons return. Not only this but lets see. The dragon born now has 2 armies, on command if he is to become emperor, an army of dragons as well, and the power to use thuum. Capable of calling storms and fires from his voice. As for Ulfric, he is a puppet, no doubt. But his intentions are just in some aspect. The empire in its current shape needs to die, and be reborn like a pheonix from the ashes. The nords are right to distrust an empire that sold their homes after loyaly fighting for them. Not only did they sell their home, they gave it to the enemy of man, and outlawed their religion. As for the nords apparent racism, they feel their home is taken from them, they have rightful claim to what is theirs. You dont see nords claiming Elswear (sp?). The nords want their lands to be theirs, not everyone elses.

Why would anyone civilized want traditional Nord rule?

Right to rule comes with whom can kill the other first?

An afterlife has nothing to do with morality, its who can kill the most and achieve the most honor in battle, be a mass murderer and goto sovngarde?

Its a devolution into barbarians.

Supporting the empire because its not going into the equivalent of dark ages.

believe it or not they have rules to these sorts of things. A mass murderer has no place in Sovangard only the Honorable and Just have claim. You must meet the requirments. 1 must be honorable, 2 must be a warrior, 3 must die fighting or die honorably. If you are a rapist, murderer of innoscents, thief, then sovangard will never open for you. Tsun would pretty much destroy you if you tried going in. As it turns out, the nords are the ones who are correct in belief according to TES since we actually get to go to Sovngard and see Tsun but never Shor. Which begs the question where the hell where the Aedra and why didnt they punish Alduin. I want to see Arkay kick some Alduin ass for disturbing the home of the honored Dead. Also Kodlak appears in Sovngard lol.

So, where does the mass murder of Talos worshippers fit into the equation?

Oh... the Empire is just buildling resources on the corpses of its denizens.

Ofcourse the empire is broken, a quote from Potema, summon the daedra, she would gladly sacrifice her subjects for a little comfort. lol

The Altmer aren't Dark Elves. Saying they aren't racist to one group doesn't erase the other. And considering Niranye was only able to rise above the rest with the help of the thieves guild before it lost its influence Is not saying much. Sure you can be Elf and have respect in Windhelm if your a criminal.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Brunwulf_Free-Winter points out Ulfrics prejustice against dark elves and argonians. That when a Nord is wronged Ulfric is quick to act but if the same thing happens to a Dark Elf he does nothing. Thus sending you on a mission to take out a criminal that freely preys on Dark Elves. And it was the old High King who welcomed the Dark Elves in.

Bringing in Elenwen was to provoke Ulfric. And giving them access isn't the same as helping. As I said they hardly care if you murder there agents which could be contrived as interfering. I murdered three Thalmor right infront of the Imperial supporting Jarl and only a minor bounty.

Ulfric Stormcloak is not a racist. He allows you to join the rebellion no matter your race. And he didn't murder innocent people. Anything that suggests he did is propaganda. In the battle of Whiterun, he doesn't kill innocents. In the battle of Solitude, he doesn't kill innocents. He doesn't order his men to kill them either. He even allows for both Jarls to live, despite their alliance with the Empire.

Does that sound like a racist serial killer to you? Because it doesn't to me. With the Empire, we have proof that they do indeed kill innocent people, and with the way they acted, it certainly seemed like nothing new. Just imagine how many had been killed before you, or how many were killed while you're out fighting dragons.

Also, consider the events when you fist enter Solitude. By tradition, challenging the High King to a duel and killing him is completely legal. It is not murder, yet a man is executed for allowing Ulfric to "escape". How is that a justification for execution? The Empire will kill anyone who gets in their way, friend or foe.

More like you're trying to make the statement "Empire == Thalmor".
Who's going to fall for that?

You have to be fighting with honor and valor, not just slaughtering innocent people on the streets. The fact that the gods don't take sides in political struggles doesn't invalidate that.

The traditional concept of Valhalla is where warriors go to prepare for the ragnarok, the end of the world. It's a reward because it recognizes your right to be there, but it's also a recruitment and staging area and only one realm of the afterlife. The wicked are punished in the Norse afterlife, too. Just because it's not a Christian concept of heaven and hell doesn't mean it's devoid of any morality. Sheesh.

I mean, if you're a pacifist then your characterization holds true I guess. "The dark ages" was a term invented by Enlightenment historians who thought everything classical was grand and peachy and anything medieval and northern European was crude and backward. It's BS.