Just because Ulfric is a skilled warrior does not make him a skilled ruler, nor did Torygg's lack of martial skill make him a poor king. The run down state of Windhelm should be proof enough of this.

I actually hated the stormcloaks because they tried to slaughter you through the whole beginning... I don't see how you people thought they pushed you, I think the exact opposite. The whole tutorial is basically bashing Stormcloaks...

excuse me? id LOVE for you to show some proof of this. either that or u simply have no clue what you're talking about. my guess is the latter.

~ the whole beginning was about u being taken prisoner and the imperials wanting to behead u... what part of that was bashing stormcloaks exactly?
~ then u have the riverwood people who are pro-stormcloak...
~ then u have whiterun who have the traditional stormcloak nords who are poor but keep to the old ways, and u have the rich nords who are pro-imperials. they're portrayed as doing anything, including throwing away tradition to get money.
~then theres the child who was kidnapped and sent to a thalmor base. thalmor are pro-imperial


so u have beheadings, rich sellouts and kidnappers. sign me up...

EHM WHAT? When I did the tutorial all I slaughtered were the blue clothed Stormcloaks. I even put on their armor and Hadvar told me to take it off because I shouldn't look like a Stormcloak... The beginnings are maybe different for everyone?

If you enter the keep with Hadvar, you fight Stormcloaks to escape Helgen. If you escape with Ralof, you fight Imperials.

so u werent taken to be beheaded by the imperials?
u werent given a choice of following the nord or the imperial?
u didnt look into the kidnapping and the debate in whiteurn?


im sorry, i thought i was talking to someone who watched the opening cinematic and read the lore/quests. i clearly assumed wrong.

carry on with your delusions...

OH THAT EXPLAINS. I've made the tutorial like 10 times had no idea there was another option than Hadvar!

IIRC, you get slightly better loot from siding with Ralof, but siding with Hadvar gets you access to some free ingots and iron armor pieces at Alvor's forge in Riverwood.

the empire is a weak, worthless, fools without dignity, willing to sacrifice their very gods for the chance to lick thalmor boot. argonia, skyrim, whats left of morrowind, and the valenwood rebels are the few who would sacrifice all to beat the thalmor, they are the ones who should have power, not the pathetic empire which cant even man it's own forts in it's own province let alone muster the man power to strike out aganst the thalmor. I see noone better to lead these brave few aganst the thalmor than Ulfric Stormcloak, rightful high king of skyrim

You seem to have forgotten about the bitter and bloody war that raged for several years between the Empire and the Thalmor.

The Empire only signed that treaty to recover it's strength. The Thalmor accepted it because they too were badly beaten and bloodied. If the Thalmor had believed they could've finished off the Empire they would not have signed the treaty. This is in fact demonstrated by the fact that as soon as the Thalmor thought the Empire was on the verge of collapse they invaded Cyrodill and took the White-Gold Tower.

Had the Emperor not fought his way out of the city the war would have ended right there, which is what that Thalmor had intended. When the Emperor returned with a reinforced Legion from Skyrim he took back the White-Gold city and captured the Thalmor general.

The lose of that army, and their general was a huge blow to the Thalmor, not to mention Hammerfell was proving to be more difficult than anticipated. If they truely believed that they could return to Cyrodill and finish off the weaken Empire they would have.

Both Empires beat each other to a pulp, the peace treaty, while it favors the Thalmor heavily, is only temporary until one side is strong enough to attack again.

Should the Thalmor recover their strength before the Empire they will attack again, which is exactly why the Thalmor want this rebellion to last a long time. If the Empire is fully united they can recover and recoup, likely before the Thalmor can.

By supporting Ulfric you're helping the Thalmor.

Not quite that simple. An Independent Skyrim can still go to fight against the Thalmor along side the Empire. Not taking a side is what really aids the Thalmor. The last thing they want is for the conflict to end soon.

Chuckg has posted a few times about how thoroughly this won't happen, covering pretty solidy both the lack of political desire on both sides for any kind of niceties between Ulfric and the Empire, and the fact that Ulfric has basically double crossed everyone he's ever worked with.

Became pretty clear to me that Ulfric was an idiot, the Empire did what it had to do to keep it self from being wiped out by the Thalmor and it tried to keep order but failed and Tullius wasn't as bad as Ralof lead you to believe.

Ulfric is not so stupid as to think the Thalmor will just leave Skyrim alone once they finish with the Emprie.

Feeling without thinking is a trademark Stormcloak trait. Do you really think the Empire likes the Thalmor any more than the Stormcloaks? The jackboots sacked their Capital, fer Stendarr's sake!

The White Gold Concordact is temporary at best. The Empire certainly wouldn't chafe under it forever. Though with Ulfric's rebellion tying up Legion resources, the point where they can pose a threat to the Thalmor is pushed back even if the Empire retains Skyrim. Nice job breaking it, Ulfric.

It would be poetic to send the Thalmor the heads of several Justiciars in a box as part of the formalities...

Ulfric: Empire. Hey. Empire. Empire, bro, what up. So, you know how I just killed thousands of your dudes and my dudes and renounced the protection of the Legion and my responsibilities to assist the Empire? That thing? Yeah, so the Dominion are attacking me now. Help me out, ay bro?

Emperor: gtfo.

Skyrim is for the nords (and dunmer)

That is my opinion though

they gave up though, the stormcloak has heart, they wll fight untll that heart is ripped violently from ther chests (and farther if they are willing to accept the help o necromancers) to protect their traditions and ways of life, they would fight untill their body is uncapable of moving, that is a trait the empire clearly lacks

The land belonged to the Falmer long ago my friend, but the Nords were attacked after peace was broken and their leader extracted revenge with a bit of half-done genocide . Now the Nords demand to keep their lands for themselves and demand that the empire should be further weakened as a result. Helps to have perspective when you run rampant in Tamriel

y would ulfric ask the help of an empire he just shunned out of skyrim?

ulfric has the dragonborn's help, as well as all of skyrim, including the college. he does not need the help of the empire. im pretty sure between his armies, the guilds, and the dragonborn, the dominion doesnt stand much of a chance.

hell, the dragonborn alone could probably handle things... with an army AND the college AND the companions AND the dark brotherhood AND the thieves guild, i pity anyone who tries to take over skyrim

p.s.

dear ulfric

the emperor is dead. good luck asking him for help

sincerely,
the dark brotherhood

I followed the imperial becuase when the stormclock guy was swinging his sword and saying they were escaping the dragon was flying at us and I turned around and ran back to the little tunnel under the bridge. When I looked back the imperial guy was there so I followed him. I didn't know you could follow the stromclock guy until I read it on these forums, by that time my breton was a full mage. I read the comments about destruction magic and decided to make a new character and follow the stormclock guy. I get to the part with the prisoner on the ground and the mages casting firebolts at the dragon, I run up to the prisoner, trying to get him up so I can follow him and the dragon killed us all. So on my third new game I was able to find the stromclock guy and I followed him.

The blood of a dragon bids Dovahkiin to Dominate, The Dark Brotherhood would slay Ulfric if the contract was proper, the Thieves Guild would stay out, The Companions already do not wish anything to do with the war and the College wouldn't go anywhere near.

a dovahkiin does whatever he pleases. paarthunax and the player are proof that not all dragons or dragonborn are blinded by their bloodlust. as far as this game is concerned, if the dominion is attacking ulfric, then the dovahkiin has helped ulfric win the war. this also assumes that the dovahkiin has settled his bloodlust, as well as the dragons bloodlust. with or without paarthunax, the dovahkiin has odhaviing and he can, and will do significant dmg to the dominion.

the dark brotherhood can be contracted to slay the dominion's leaders much sooner than they can be told to slay ulfric. unless the dark brotherhood can manage to slay every general and ranking officer in the stormcloak army AND the dragonborn, the dominion have no chance. and im pretty sure they wont kill a dovahkiin. im sorry but they simply wont.

the thieves guild does whatever it needs to to stay alive. with the dominion likely threatening their death, im sure the thieves will have a say in the matter

the companions are tricky. yes, they will stay out.. until attacked. the dominion isnt after peace with skyrim or the nords in it. so either the companions fight to stay alive, or stay out and die. or i guess they can hide out on a mountain like the greybeards...

the college is tricky. they might just welcome the aldmeri dominion. until they decide to kill every non-elf... that might be a problem...

the only guild that will stay out is the greybeards, and im sure the dovahkiin might even make them help out...

My post, to clarify, was in response to Lord Vukodlak's comment that an independent Skyrim could still ally with the Empire against the Thalmor.

That demonstrates my example of a Stormcloak lacking any planning or foresight ability. Fighting to the very bitter end is not how you preserve am Empire. That's how you'd destroy it.

The Empire, as has been stated many times, is binding its time until it can again attack again. The treaty is not going to last forever. The Empire, when it recovers will strike back against the Thalmor, or if the Thalmor recover first because of the meldsome Ulfric they will attack and take over both the Empire and Skyrim.

Skyrim won't survive on it's own. Sure the Redguards have held their ground however they have not driven them out, nor have they won. They are also battling the already bloodied Thalmor armies after the Legion gave them black eyes. Were Hammerfell to stand against the full might of the Thalmor they would not survive, the entire Empire barely did. Skyrim is no different.

Another thing that I see you Stormcloaks say is that the Empire "gave up" or "surrendered." They didn't, they sued for peace.

Had the Empire surrendered or given up it would have been at the point of the Thalmor sword, it was not. The Emperor and the Legion took back the Imperial City and sued for peace with the Dominion. Yes it was the same contractual terms as the original surrender was for however if the Thalmor had the Empire at the point of its sword the terms would not have been so, the peace treaty would have been even worse.

Since the Empire was on the offensive however they were able to secure that deal. They're wise enough to know however that unless they sued for those exact terms it's unlikely the Dominion would have accepted and the war would've raged.

The Empire sued for peace they did not give up. They hit the pause button that happens to have a few rules. Once they recover though its game time again.

-edit- Autocorrect fails.