There are simply too many events in the onset of the game that push you towards siding with the Stormcloaks, which prevents you from making an educated decision early on in the game, assuming you're not doing a strict role-play and just doing what you yourself would do in that situation.

You start off with bound hands next to Ralof and Ulfric, captured with the Stormcloaks by the Imperials. Ralof says that everyone in the carriage is brothers-in-bonds (or whatever he says) causing the player to form a connection with Ralof and the others there. Then you're brought to the headsman's axe, and you observe that the Imperials are about to execute a handful of people without trial or recourse, including the player. Obviously this puts you on edge and causes you to not like the Imperials for your own survival. Sure, Hadvar is a stand up guy, but Tullius comes off as an [censored] and the Imperial Officer doesn't even care that you're not on the list and sentences you to your death before you have a chance to speak.

The first Stormcloak is executed while saying that his ancestors are proud of him, and asking the Imperials if they could say the same. Ralof says something like "As fearless in death as he was in life", which, to most people, would seem pretty noble and brave. Then the dragon attacks and Ralof saves you. Sure you follow Hadvar around for a bit but he doesn't really save you like Ralof does, you just kind of follow him around. Then you're given the choice to go with Hadvar, the Imperial who just sent you to the executing block, or with Ralof, your brother-in-bonds. Most people in that situation would obviously go with Ralof.

Even if you go with Hadvar, you go through the torture chamber, seeing the torturer and some of the atrocities he's done. After saving him he sneers at the Stormcloaks, saying how they weren't too happy about how he treated his comrades. Obviously this makes you feel sympathy for the Stormcloaks as torture is pretty [censored] up.

After a while you make your way to Whiterun, where upon entering you learn that Eorlund, the best blacksmith in the land (someone who would garner respect from anyone) would never make armor for the Imperials. Then you learn about the Grey-Mane and Battle-Born feud, and the Battle-Born (Imperial supporters) come off as pompous [censored] rich dudes, while the Grey-Manes seem like Noble Nords who respect their ancestors.

Then, worst of all, you learn of Fraila Grey-Mane, who's son has been declared dead by the Empire. She's convinced that he's alive but the Battle-Borns say that for sure he is dead. Eventually you Only until you visit Windhelm and learn a little more about Ulfric and the Empire vs. the Thalmor that the player can make an educated decision, but by then sometimes the decision is already made in their head to join the Stormcloaks.

I agree. I think that's supposed to be canon in the future.

Because having made a decision and then understanding that it was not that obvious as it seemed, and that there was more to it than readily apparent makes for a better, more engaging immersion than having everything presented evenly and openly from the get go. The better stuff is always that which you feel like you've dug up (even if it's a faked illusion). That said, there is a stormcloak-centric bias at the beginning, yes...

I kinda suspect that at the beginning of the quest/story planning stage of development, the idea was to have a clear good/bad guys slant, but it got turned into shades-of-grey later on.

...This was never the case for me. If you've played any other TES game and have had a little incite into what the civil war is about, you're able to make and educated decision before you even boot up the game.

It's ambiguous, and it's awesome. The stormcloaks are presented as the underdog good guys BECAUSE you're in Skyrim. The Imperials are foreign.

I helped the Stormcloaks and still joined the Empire. So no, it doesn't really push you one way or the other.

It's not like you can change your mid after joining the Stormcloaks though, that's the problem.

I got the opposite impression, sort of. If not for the Stormcloaks, I wouldn't have even been captured in the first place. I would have just continued on my merry way into Skyrim, unhindered.

And I always think about it like this: I'm the Dragonborn. If I stop myself from choosing what I think is the right choice, because of a personal grudge, what kind of hero am I? Whether it's the Stormcloaks or the Imperials.

I joined the empire because the leader of the stormcloaks is racist to drumner and keeps them in a ghetto

Well joining the Stormcloaks is the Noble thing in my opinion but if your not a Nord I can see reasoning not to join them. Stormcloaks come off as racist and against Magic users it seems.

Sorry about double post, forums wont let me edit my last post.


But I wanted to added I joined the Stormcloaks this time because my friend was like look at their numbers from the battle map, they dont got alot so I am going with Imperials. So I was like this is Classic Empire vs Rebels from Star Wars, Rebels were at the disadvantage and they managed to win against the Empire. I honestly was going to make a valid decision on this part and side with the most reasonable side but after what my friend said I was like Stormcloaks for me.

Once the Knight Templar higher-up that shouted Alvor down is taken out of the picture by the dragon, you eventually get your freedom. Run with Alvor and he'll vouch for you. And Tullius himself pretty much clears you once that's all take care of.

Really, it's only that one crazy b..... female dog that shouts Alvor's "Let this one go" plea down that put you on the headsman's stump.

Playing morrowind and oblivion has sided me with the empire. Before the empire everything was chaos, hatred, now as you see.. this ulfric fella is more racist than hitler. Check out the "gray quarters" mistreated argonians etc. The empire needs help to retain its integrity not a craptastic civil war. Then again I know the civil war type of crap people. oh and,

I hate Rebels

5% of the times the rebels are just going aagainst a real opresive tyrani, most of the time is just whinny teenagers who want to get laid in gold.

Can't go in details of ulfric but if you go to whitehelm and look around before choosing a side you'll see. Now i admit the empire is very very... very agresive to traitor.

Btw how will the empire beat the thalmor dominion with a civil war, like the legate says" skyrim needs the empire now more than ever" they should be helping the empire, reshaping it if its gone out of way not hurt it more and eventually be pwned by the high nose elfs.

And by the way the general talks, this "peace" with the elfs that looks to their advantage is to help the empire heal and retaliate at an appropiate time, think of it as an strategic retreat.


This racist ulfric fellow with hungry for power is just making things worse.


I chopped his head off.

You don't even have to join anyone. I didn't do it until level 40.

I think the game makes it perfectly clear that the Stormcloak rebellion is selfish and shortsighted from the getgo. If Skyrim breaks away from the Empire there is nobody left in the world who can stop the Thalmore from conquering everything and enslaving all mankind.

I agree that the point, I suspect, is to bias you towards the Stormcloaks on purpose so that later you find, likely after it's too late, that they're not all they're cracked up to be. Stormcloaks have awesome NPCs but dubious leadership and methodology, Empire has solid leadership and methodology but not as compelling NPCs. Hadvar is cool but he's no Ralof.

Edited to add:

Besides, you know what Rebels are? Tools of the next evil Empire. Being rebellious is all cool and such but once the dust settles you still need to make the trains run on time. Behind every 'rebellion' is a new would be Emperor. Rebel = tool.

On the other hand the first thing you see in windhelm is
Was enough to make me turn around and hike up to solitude as fast as I could.

I cant help but feel its like England conquering Scottish clans. Hell i wanna be William Wallace, not some emperors boot licking general. That is how i feel now. I havent done any quests involving the civil war yet. But im pretty sure ill go with the Nords.

and who helps you escape? guides you past the dragon and after you escape with him, tells you to join the legion? of course it depends on which choice you make before entering the keep, but i felt no alliegance whatsoever to the stormcloaks - THEY'RE the rebels who managed to get ME captured and nearly killed by being associated with them! ive always gone legion

Totally, totally, agree. I love it the way it is.

Besides, you aren't really forced to do anything, you can still side with the Empire. I mean Hadvar does save your life.

I feel like the Stormcloaks needed a strong intro and push to get the players to join them, otherwise everyone would be going Empire due to being familiar with them from past games.

Who you follow in the beginning doesn't decide who you join. You find out pretty quickly if you pay any attention that the Stormcloaks can be pretty [censored] people too.

cuz its very appearant that the EMpire isnt the empire anymore its the elves tryna take over the world and theyre blatant about it. I aint fighting for no puppets.

The empire is BAD.

that said i havent even joined a side lol and im lvl 52

The only thing in favour of Stormcloaks at the begining was that the empire was trying to chop my head off.
Neither is good or bad if you see things from their perspective and you have in mind the fact that in war changes peoples behavour and even the noblest man can do hideous things.

That pretty much sums it up. Just about every "rebel" group has wound up being far worse when they got their hands on the reins of power than what they were opposing, possibly excepting of the founders of the country that wrote this game.

I didn't even realize that I was making a choice at the time. Hadvar said follow, I followed, and that was all.

Edit: The Thalmor need to go though, of course.

If you ever talked to the general and understood his meaning in his words you'll see the empire is just recuperating for an eventual counter attack in this "peace". I bet next tes is the empire vs thalmor retaliation. After all both empires ended in a standstill of countless deaths and stagnated to a "peace" that will eventually ends in war again. If you know history, this type of political strategy should be pretty obvious.


edited: typo