"It has so much more depth to it." WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY DEPTH? HOW FAR YOU CAN GO UNDER WATER? Seriously, like, what RPG elements make it better.


I'm not asking in a way that makes me seem that I like Skyrim more. I can't do that. Considering I haven't played any other ones. But I simply want to know, what makes it better.

I love the overall gameplay, but the quests that Oblivion and Morrowind had were far superior in my opinion. I played for a couple weeks religiously, then I quit because they quests were nothing exciting and the main quest was so easy to predict I didn't even bother playing through it.

I never played Morrowind, but most of the comments touting the superiority of Morrowind tend to fall into those categories, as least as far as how they strike me personally:

(1) The posts that reek of nostalgia. I understand that Morrowind was a ton of folks' introduction to TES, and it has a special place in their memories, but then ask the people who started with Daggerfall what they think of Daggerfall. Same thing.
(2) The posts that are mistaking multiplication of skills, attributes and armor types for "complexity" and "depth" of gameplay, and mistaking lengthy text speeches by NPCs for depth of story. I've seen screenshots of Morrowind, and it doesn't have a tenth the atmosphere that Skyrim does. I admit this is somewhat due to my personal point of view, but for me, I prefer fantasy where the visual styles and themes relate to fantasy's origins in the legend and folklore of the real world. Skyrim has more than a whiff of old Norse legend about it; Morrowind just looks like an alien planet to me.

As far as Oblivion goes, the only area where Oblivion is superior to Skyrim is in the Quest Log. Skyrim has Oblivion beat in every other area.

This again!!

Why do some people think eating pie is better than eating cake? Preferences are the main reasons.

lol

Because pie IS better than cake! You haven't lived until you've had a good apple pie with vanilla ice cream, pumpkin pie, pecan pie or cherry pie!

What are you talking about? I'm asking, ELABORATE ON YOUR "PREFERENCES"

Because as far as RPG's are concerned, Oblivion and Morrowind are the better RPG's, as Skyrim is just barely an RPG, and more of a full on action-adventure.

I don't get this "just barely an RPG" bit. I keep seeing people say Skyrim lacks "RPG elements", but when they elaborate, their idea of "RPG elements" means "lots of statistics".

Morrowind could be considered better because everyone that played it saw most of the map for lack of fast travel, meaning you always found the cool stuff like m'aiq the liar and other random encounters.

It was an anology to posit why some think why one game is better for whatever reason they think they are, which are all subjective. No different than your attempt to make a fact about one's taste for a certain kind of dessert. I personally don't eat either because I think they are mostly unhealthy fares. But to poke a little fun, I guess your pie and ice cream choice must mean you lean towards Morrowind and Oblivion .

Why don't you go play them and find out for your self? all you will get with a thread like this is Skyrim fanatics fighting with Morrowind lovers who in turn will be fighting with Oblivion fans.

All TES games are great, people just prefer different things. I personally think Morrowind is the best. Yet, i am still fully enjoying Skyrim as much as i did Oblivion.

"This again!" means that threads, just like this one you created, have been made ad nauseam. They typically break down into flame wars more than any real discussion, since any discussion stems from the subjectivity of one's gaming preferences.

RPG elements are characteristics of the game that put success of your actions on the character's ability instead of the player. This is why you can say you're roleplaying someone else. Otherwise you're just playing as yourself.

Well sorry big man, didn't know I couldn't ask a question on the [censored] forum without people jumping down my throat criticizing me for stating that nobody on here elaborates on what they say and their opinions. If your going to make an opinion, simply back it up.

More options, more customisation, more freedom, more stats, better writing, consequences for your actions, the need to prepare or otherwise fail horrible, the option of even failing horribly instead of just winning or winning hard, less handholding and plain simply more game for my buck.

Granted, but then some preferences conflict with fact, while others are completely subjective.

As an example, my preference for fantasy that draws heavily from the real world, like Skyrim, is simply my subjective preference. Others just as validly prefer the more alien world of Morrowind. I very deeply disagree with that sort of preference, but there's no way I can simply claim to be objectively right.

But as far as the people who tend to imply that an RPG means having lots of stats, and less stats means the game is less of an RPG - they're simply objectively wrong. That is not what the term "role-playing game" means. They may prefer more stats, but if they say that having less stats means you are "losing RPG elements", then they are wrong, and what's more, they're incapable of distinguishing between a kind of game and the mechanics used to structure that game. With pen-and-paper RPG games, the Hero System games like Champions have far more stats than the ol' standard, Dungeons and Dragons; does that mean D&D is "lacking in RPG elements"?

There were consequences in Oblivion? That's new to me. Care to list some?

Mostly the features that have been cut, or marginalized. Its not really title and setting specific stuff, its features and mechanics. More diversity, representation and depth in mechanics as well (though that's mostly in Morrowind). They are simply too long to list but some examples would be, spell creation, a good degradation system, attributes and what they represented, acrobatics, spell effects that are now gone, marginalization of skills like H2H, more inherent customization through character creation, existing mechanics that were more expansicve in previous games, like enchanting morethan just two effects, or chance to fail. Luck and all of its direct and indirect influences. In Daggerfall there's even more depth, with all of the factions, faction standings etc. The amount of detail in certain mechanics like vampires or even the fast travel system.

It's funny because it's true. But that's the way games are made nowadays. I remeber the old days, where just getting trough a game was an accomplishment.

To some extent I can agree with that. I expect that in that sense, nobody wants a "pure" RPG - should your success in combat be determined STRICTLY by your stats? If I have a maxed-out one-handed skill, should I have a maximum chance of success with each swing, even if my mouse pointer or crosshair blatantly not on the target? Or the converse, if my skill is low, should I be missing all over the place no matter if my crosshair is dead center on a melee target? Given the FPS-type mechanic of the game, I expect few people would want that degree of RPG-strictness. Even given that, though, I can't say that Skyrim is "lacking in RPG elements". There are plenty of RPG elements, but the player's decisions have to have some effect. Otherwise, in Oblivion, a low-intelligence character should have been forced to take stupid actions, be illiterate, and so forth. You can only be so unintelligent, after all, before you reach a point where the phrase "mentally disabled" becomes applicable, making literacy unlikely.

But I digress. Overall, I tend to agree with your point.

http://i.imgur.com/yWPk9.jpg

Metroid 1.
'nuff said.

lol

I think some people are just leery of the fact that people tend to bring up the same points in these threads. Admittedly they do tend to follow the same course each time, although I suppose with different people.

I see your pic and raise you http://df.magmawiki.com/images/4/40/FunComic.png

I think what happened to me, is that Morrowind's quests were more in depth and there were so many of them! Do I join the Temple? Do I join House Redoran or house Hllalu? It took a while to get to the top of the guild, and the rewards were better.

Skyrim though has smithing, and it's pretty, and you get these cool shouts. I couldn't even imagine a shout in Morrowind! I think it's cool to Fus do rah someone off a mountain.

Oblivion had it's quirks. I loved the quirks! I also think it was pretty.

Each to his own, each game has it's very strong points. Each game also has weak points. People will ALWAYS point out all the weak points of a game/life and gloss over the good stuff.