True, but a way around this problem would be to make a semi-essential status where NPCs could not be killed by the environment, only by the player.

I don't. I played Oblivion first and did not play Morrowind until 2010, but I still like many aspects of Morrowind better than many aspects of Skyrim. Skyrim does some things better, but other things are done better by Morrowind.

Totally agree with this except for the part about the graphics and animations.

Started with Skyrim, played Morrowind right after and Oblivion right after that.
Morrowind is my favorte.
Skyrim is on the second place. Oblivion is a great game, but not as good as the other two, imho.

Don't know what forums you've been frequenting, but the criticism here has been actually pretty mild.

Because obviously the only way people could not like Skyrim is because they are mistaken about what they do like.

And NO ONE will admit it.

I understand how you feel UniMag. I'm in the same boat as you. Skyrim is my first ES game and I love it.

But I CAN understand ES fan's frustrations by creating a little exersize.

Ask yourself this: You're now an ES fan... how would you feel if the next ES game removed something you loved? For me, I asked myself if it removed pickpocketing... or lockpicking... would I come up here and complain?

You bet I would!

That's why you see people arguing seemingly incredibly paltry/petty things like "levitation" or "Werebears" or "Spears" or "attribute numbers". Because we, as new players, did not have a standard set at some point with what made the game great.

But, congratulations - you now unknowingly have a standard... and that standard for you can, and always will be, your first ES game - Skyrim.

the only hate here is the one perpetuated by "non-haters" making a bigger deal out of it than it actually is much like this very thread that has nothing to do with Skyrim but the people who play it, then go on to say how satisfied everyone else in the world is, like people here don't come from everywhere else in the world and that they are "special" in their thinking. DOZENS of forums related to Skyrim have folks with similar criticisms.

but that's conveniently forgotten by those who try so hard to invalidate "dissenters" see thats the difference "haters" don't try to say how wrong someone is for liking something, or saying they are a minority

I don't believe it's nostalgia... I actually believe it's simply a set standard players particularly like... and that's usually endemic of their first ES experience.

I mean, when you make a home-cooked meal, how often do you change it from your base fundamental recipe?

It's kinda like the running theory in the TV series Doctor Who... that show has been on since 1963... so every viewer tends to have a different actor who played the Doctor, and almost all of them tend to sight their favorite Doctor being their first one they saw, and state it should go back towards that particular Doctor's style.

Erm... sorry... but, no. I've seen a LOT more arguments by the Morrowind/Oblivion crowds than by people asking "why do you hate this game"?

Though I will admit that these forums have NOTHING on the level of argument/hate that the World of Warcraft forums get!

You must have been under a different forum name because their hasn't been a significant number of threads "complaining" about skyrim in Months as stated in this thread. and I'll just disagree with you. it starts with a thread asking why the hate when you can't find a "hate thread" for 5 pages.

I still play Might & Magic VI from 1997, and it's one of the games I've been the most immersed in ever. I can promise you that both the graphics and the animations are far below the levels you are familiar with. To be honest, animations are close to non-existant in that game. I still think it's much better than Skyrim, even though I really do like Skyrim as well.

I've collected a couple of my points on why Skyrim could have been better here, if you are asking out of genuine interest.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1412010-skyrim-a-critical-review/page__st__90__p__21560756#entry21560756

After having read this thread, I'm sorry to announce that you can't make someone like what you like, just because you have a high level of respect mixed with good old nostalgia for game A, and your 'opponent' has a high level of respect/nostalgia for game B. Just because I personally think it goes Morrowind > Oblivion with FCOM > Skyrim > Vanilla Oblivion, doesn't mean someone else isn't allowed to think Skyrim is the best thing since baked bread. People have varying opinions, so while discourse should be encouraged, don't let that escalate into a useless Morrowind versus Skyrim thread yet again.

Skyrim's Cliffracers is an bit larger and tend to breath fire and frost however it's far to few of them, we want something like the density of Morrowind.

There's a lot more love than there is hate for skyrim. It's just like if you have 30 friends and 1 person that hates you. You forget about your 30 friends and all your focus is turned onto that one person that doesn't like you.

Also, on these forums, it's always the cool thing to do, pick apart the games faults and be the first to post it. Being negative in the forums also gets you more reply in your threads, so people are being negative to get attention. Ignore them, you like the game play it and don't click on the haters.

not good enough, now if we had 3 or 4 dragons breathing down our backs when walking up a mountain~ now were talking

This thread touches on a subject I find interesting to study. The phenomenon I find here is actually that the first ES one plays is usually their favorite or at least the high standard for all that follow or precede. I have a theory as to why.

ES has only one clearly defining, uniting characteristic: diversity. No two games are alike in the series, each is very distinct from its predecessor. Look at the art style and feel of the games and you will find that Daggerfall is completely different from Morrowind which is completely different from Oblivion which is completely different from Skyrim. Now this has a positive result and in my opinion is a virtue. It means each game is a genuine new game. It is a new experience. Each new region generates a sense of wonder for me, I feel drawn to explore because I have never been in a place like it before. However, this does have a negative effect and this is where the paradoxical problem comes in. People like diversity, but people also love that first experience and the nostalgia. ES naturally sacrifices those things for this virtue of diversity. So you don't get that nostalgia factor you may get with other series. For Morrowind fans and Oblivion fans it will never recapture that opening moment because the games just aren't the same; they aren't supposed to be. Morrowind is probably the oddest of the bunch (it's art direction and gameplay is VERY distinct from the rest of the series), so the effect is intensified there. So basically, it is a paradoxical issue: the game has great diversity, but that diversity naturally generates favoritism. But I think that if that diversity went away in order to make a "Morrowind II, III, IV" or "Oblivion II, III, IV," ES will have lost it's greatest value of always bringing a new realm and new experience.

In general you may be right, Nuvendil, however... I grew up on RPG's starting at around 1992, been playing them ever since, and well, my 1st Elder Scroll was Daggerfall, and my 2 favorite ES's are Skyrim and Morrowind, Skyrim as a package of gameplay and lore/story/world and Morrwind for its lore/story/world.

I may call myself a Morrowind fanatic and I hated Oblivion. But I must tell you - I love Skyrim. And my love grows from dlc to ldc -))
I thought I completed all the quests at Winterhold College, but today I run into two quests one of them was a major quest it seems, just by accident. I was passing by there just to bring back another pack of shalidors writings, and finally managed to get the item from Dorian for enchaintment, and randomly spoke with a mage that introduced me a new illusion-related quest, quite interesting one, and I got another quest from another NPC two minutes later... This game seems eternal to me-)) I haven't yet completed the Dawnguard and haven't even started doing anything from the Heartfires dlc, and here we are a new big DLC is about to see the light. I love this game. Only there are some instability problems I am facing currently, but I think I found a way to solve them... need more testing to be sure.

This is the way of life young grasshopper. Once the next TES is released, everyone will hail Skyrim as the best Elder Scrolls game so far. Ever.

Ive played morrowind and oblivion aswell. I agree that morrowind have many things going for it, but as any game it has its flaws.

Morrowind may be the best game of the 3 considerd by some, but there are no reason to nag about how much better it is compared to Skyrim. Skyrim is a greate game.



im not saying people are wrong when they say morrowind is a better game. Im saying the constantly comparising and glorifying of morrowind is wrong. Its okay to like morrowind for its complex lore and deep rpg elements, but in some cases nostalgia gives that impression a boost.

You can't kill Skyrim's cliffracers by casting levitate on them.

I agree 100%. The cycle keeps on keeping on. I will always love ALL the Elder Scrolls games no matter what the haters say.

Oh of course there are exceptions to what I was saying. I was not so much stating a rule, just summarizing what I have observed . I for one love Skyrim more than Oblivion (though Nehrim...that almost brought it to a tie) even though Oblivion was my first ES. So, yeah, I am well aware there are exceptions; I myself am one