Why not charge for content and not a flat sub fee? : Othor Games

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:35 am

i dont get yout train of though, on this.

GW2 was the fastest selling MMO to reach 3million box sales in 9months, according to http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/08/18/guild-wars-2-fastest-selling-western-mmo-of-all-time-looks-to-china/, that means not even the almighty WoW manage that in teh first year, yes they have slow down the sales of boxes in the last quarter, BUT THEY STILL SELLING, that is what you need to take from those articles you posted.

GW2 doesnt require a sub, so if they still selling boxes it means the game is still appealing to gamers, even a gamer like myself that bought Gw2 at launch but no longer actively plays, can go back at any time and dont need to care about subs blocking my entrance to the game

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Ah ok thanks.

Well I bought and played all of those except STO. In each case i quit due to lack of interest...BEFORE they went F2P.

So my whole point is still valid(for me at least) blame the game...not the payment model.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:42 am

I don't understand why PC users are [censored]ing about P2P when us console users have to pay the same charges plus the console's Internet subscription.

Count your blessings

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:45 am

Think you're using "AAA" a bit loosely here. Besides the success or failure of a game has to do with the quality of the game not its sub model. So it really doesn't make much sense to bring up as an arguing point for why a game should be a certain pay model.

Fact is if all those games were good, well liked and well played games they would all still have monthly subs.

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:54 pm

I'm going to say this and then I am done with this thread.

ZOS, thank you for taking the high road and doing the right thing by us players. I have faith the game will be fantastic. Great job so far.

:icecream:

/drop mic

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:52 am

No they don't. Once a year or so expansions that bring in a whole new games worth of content yes you pay for those. But content updates and patches in between those expansions are free in Premium sub model games.

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:28 pm

I am so happy ESO decided to go with subscriptions. Definitely the best decision they could have made and pretty much solidifies I will play. So glad they didn't bend to all the whiners!

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:28 am

The announced payment model works really well if a game is better/more popular. Then most other games in the genre.

We will have to see if it is really as good as i hope it is, or people might not buy the price..

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:14 am

I think the problem with paying for content is that it would be quite divisive amongst the community. If everyone has a miss match of content it makes forming guilds and grouping more difficult and ends up stratifying guilds according to player income.

I think an all or nothing system is more appropriate. Sometimes MMOs (RuneScape, for example, though not the best one) have a B2P area for players not wishing to subscribe, and a larger amount of content available for those who sub.

My idea would be that the base game - that is what the give you at launch - is B2P - you will always be able to access the launch content even without a subscription provided you bought the box. This would retail at around ￡50. On top of this, there would be a sub fee of between ￡5-￡10 that will give you access to these 4 week content drops. So long as you are subscribed you can access all content release between expansions, but when you are not subscribed this content is temporarily locked. This avoids the problem of beng locked out of a game you already bought, and avoids dividing players by a miss-match of content.

EDIT: In fact, considering they referred to this as a 'Premium' Sub-service, this may well be what they are doing...

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:36 pm

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:57 pm

A lot of people want to play MMORPGs for free or to pay almost nothing, but this is not really how MMORPGs work if the developers want to avoid microtransactions.

Well, F2P is cr*p to me. F2P are trash games, you play it, throw it away if there is a better one. I recently played Neverwinter - It is a good game, but I really hate the feeling that I have to pay money to get something faster or to get some special currency to buy this and that horseskin. I loved the Neverwinter Nights IP, but Neverwinter is not great for Neverwinter Nights-fans.

B2P games are not stable either. And this is how MMORPGs work. I want a game which I can play for 3 or 4 years while still being able to enjoy it. While playing GuildWars 2 I experience every damn week a new event where ArenaNet continues their focus on the microtransaction shop. "Eh, dude! Buy this and that and, whoah, watch this!" - But the real additional content is not good at all.

I know the GuildWars 2's WvW community and those people will drop the game as soon The Elder Scrolls Online or Camelot Unchained release. GuildWars 2 is a trash-game as soon a new exciting game will release.

GuildWars 2 is mechanically not even a real successor of GuildWars. Its just a new game. SWTOR also wasn't a real Star Wars game.

Rift stayed 2 years as an P2P MMORPG (1st/3rd March 2011 to 12th June 2013). Its a more recent example than SWTOR and the community was a lot more stable than SWTOR's one. They didn't have any cool IP, it was just a standard MMORPG-IP and it obviously had to compete against World of Warcraft since Rift was just a PvE-focused game.

TESO will feature a really big IP, as SWTOR had it's IP. But TESO will be easier to adjust for the developers. There were already TES games and we know how we experienced TES games previously despite that it was a singleplayer game.

What I really love what I've seen and I don't really want to see any more things until the open-beta begins. Thus I think its worth my 12,99€ though I will not play 6hrs a day during my working weeks.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:35 am

I've never played an MMO or P2P game before. Do I still have to initially purchase the game in addition to the $15 per month? If so this could get expensive quick on consoles and IMO double and triple charging for the same game/service:

PS+: $50

Game: $60

1 year subscription: $180

Total $290 to play one game online for a year.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:45 am

How is that relevant though?

No one is asking about pay gates. That's what you get with a microtransaction model. Paying for DLC is a totally different animal.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:45 am

The only thing that ever "destroyed" the population in other MMO's is a subpar game. If the game is good enough, players will pay the subscription. If it's not, they won't. Simple.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:11 am

Maybe in 2008 yeah.... I've heard the same argument for P2P in pretty much every MMO game launch forum.....and then a half a year later when the game is going F2P, all those backers of the P2P system turn around, and start going "Ohhh it was doomed to happen, I knew this was going to happen."

They never learn

At lease ZO will be happy with their money grab. They'll get tons of money, then in a year when they go F2P they can use their funds to start making another money grab MMO. Some ZO accountant is out there rubbing their hands together right now...

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:36 am

Including the PS+ price is a bit of a stretch I think. Most people will pay for PS+ regardless, so you can't really argue that is part of the fee. That's like including the price of internet in your calculations, despite the fact you would pay for internet regardless.

Otherwise, yes you are correct. You pay $60 for the game and then $15 per month. Yes it is pricey, but it is the way MMO's work. I've found in my MMO history that it's well worth the price, it's essentially the same price as a new game every 4 months. If the game is any good you will easily get a whole game worth of playing in 4 months.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:32 am

You just go ahead and keep on ignoring the populations for older subscription games that are still going to this day, that even predate WoW. Some of us want those types of MMOs still. A good P2P MMO will get to be so old you'll forget about it over time unless you're one of the people playing it. WoW is the rarity here. The SWTOR's and LOTRO's are the rarity's here.

TESO will go down the road of DAOC, FFXI and all the other "ancient" MMOs that survive to this day on the backs of their loyal and dedicated fans. And I couldn't be [censored] happier. Games where "community" still sort of means something. Have fun on your great F2P game tour, the rest of us will be playing 1 game while you're hopping to your 20th MMO in the same timespan. :thumbsup: :wavey:

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:48 am

Name a single MMO that has come out in recent years that is worth the subscription fee? I would argue there are none (and i've played most of them). Fact is this is a genre with mostly subpar games.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:59 am

I would say that Rift was for awhile. Till Trion made that abortion of a game called Defiance.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:15 am

All MMOs are worth the sub fee....but like you said, for a while. Then they go F2P. They should just take from ArenaNet's success and start off F2P. Will mean more players stay with the game in the end.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:10 am

MMOs won't last forever. You can't expect them to be running twenty years from now. WoW will switch to F2P at some point that doesn't mean the game failed. It has successfully been p2p for 10 years.

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:26 pm

If I can't play the content before paying, that's a pay gate right there. How is DLC different? It fits exactly that description - content for money. No money, no content.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:38 am

This ^

Sub it up ESO. Ill pay my sub and my two younger brothers subs for a new badass game that will get us something new besides wow. No other mmos can keep our competitive playstyles attention.

» Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:17 pm

Yeah but Rift, Tera, SWTOR...all these games weren't WoW, and weren't created in the market that WoW was.

Games decline much faster now days when they start off P2P. Leads to lots of angry players and massive sub drops. What is left after the game goes F2P is a much lower player population, and a much smaller reason for ZO to keep working on the game as much as they could have.

» Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:38 pm

I don't really like the subscription model at all, and a very small part of me now wants this game to fail to prove it's outdated. In my opinion, if a game requires constant propping up by players, that cannot survive on box fee alone, then its business model is inherently flawed. I wouldn't feel right getting something for nothing, however, and a reduced optional sub-fee merged with a B2P model seems like the best compromise. Dedicated MMO players will always foot the bill because they have an elevated hunger for new content, but the more careful RP market shouldn't be ostracised by having to pay for content they're unlikely to use.

Therefore I hope for a premium service. Sub for the extra content, use the base-game and base-expansions forever. That's more than fair, and a compromise for the B2P and P2P camps.