Skyrim is a great game and a true TES game IMO, 2nd only to MW.

skyrims a fun game, and we even see some things from morrowind peeking its head oiy. To me its the storyline and how its rushed. Mw wasfantastic and even though oblivions was ow lordy the worlds gonna end...soon...well when ever u get time to do this, felt less rushed and meaty than skyrims. That and my other petpeve is that under no circumstances are u ever restricted in what u can do, ur rawrior whos only used the beginning health spell...well congradulations u have all the right qualities to be headmage. At least in other gamss, yes u could join all guilds except in morrowind and be the headmaster, but dammit they expected u to know and be a certain way to be able to move up the ladder. In skyrim, the reason u can join every guild no matter what ur playthru os because the neebie whos wet behind the ears and most likely dont even know how to even do the things we do in this game, is destined to save us and become the head guy.

All those that say it is one of the best TES games yet, I have one question for you:
How many TES games have you played?
I've played 4 (I haven't played arena or the spin-offs) and I think both Daggerfall and Morrowind did better jobs as TES games, the worlds felt bigger and stranger (especially Morrowind). And it was a lot of fun, with magic etc. Only bad thing was probably the animations IMO.

Oblivion was great, but the level scaling was horrible, they removed a lot of fun spells and skills (axe is a blunt wapon come on) they also removed some of my favourite weapons that have yet to return. All the faces looked [censored] up, but it was a fun game, though I didn't feel that I was introduced to something new.
And you saved the world in just about every quest both the factions and the MQ.

Skyrim fixed the races, made the combat more interesting, made things look better etc. But they stripped away a lot too, like atributes, birth signs, but the world doesn't change much and even if you are archmage people still say that you should check out the college of winterhold. But it's probably better than Oblivion.

That's my opinion at least.

In certain ways, every Elder Scrolls was worse than the one before it, but also better in other ways.

Oblivion's story wasn't as deep or as thought out as Morrowind's story, but it more than made up for that in gameplay, artistic visuals, and the DLC. Shivering Isles was outstanding...

Every TES is great, each one I have played and put quite a bit of time in them. Skyrim, now don't get me wrong, I love it to death, but it feels as if it was turned into a different direction, more similar to Morrowind, it would feel more like a TES game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for Morrowind 2, but I have the want to see the series turn from streamlining and dumbing down.

You shouldnt have any trouble running it on a pc. It's not as old as the first Fallout - 5 or 6 years younger.

If Morrowind works on the 360 I will try to get it this week.

You say that as though it is a fact, when in actuality, it is not.

I, for one, believe we have more choice than we did before.

Attributes
-I don't see this as a loss at all. Everything that Attributes covered is still in the game, either through the Health / Magicka / Stamina bars (which is really all that most attributes in past games covered anyways), and what's not covered in the 3 Attributes we do have is covered in perks (I.E.: staggering, damage, carry capacity, etc.) The only thing that's not in Skyrim from past games is Speed, and that is actually done in a different way with sprinting, which while not the same is really just a different way of accomplishing the same thing.

Which is ultimately the difference between how Skyrim handles it vs. Morrowind or Oblivion. The results are still there, they haven't been removed, they are just handled differently.

You don't like the way it is handled now - which is a totally valid opinion - but it is a subjective one. Claiming that it is not there is an inaccurate statement of fact.

Birthsigns
-Again, the effects of the Birthsigns are still in the game, they are just now handled differently in the form of Standing Stones. Again, you don't like the new way of doing it compared to the old, but it is a subjective preference, not a factual lack of content or "RPG mechanics"

Classes
-Actually, classes are just the same as before, the only thing missing is the label.

In Morrowind or Oblivion, you pre select a handful of skills that "define" your class, and as such you level up, but there is nothing that limits you to those chosen skills. You are still able to branch out and become any kind of combination of skills you want, including becoming a full fledged master of all. You level up by doing, and there is nothing in game that stops you from branching outside of your "class" except yourself. "Class" was just an arbitrary title that had no impact on the game whatsoever.

Fast forward to Skyrim, where skills level you up by doing, just like past games, and you can focus on any combination of skills you choose, just like past games. The difference is that where in past games, you "defined" yourself pre-game by tagging some skills and giving them a label, in Skyrim you instead define your class as you play by investing perk points in the skills and perks that would define your character.

As such, Skyrim actually has more of a "class" system, by restricting you more, as you cannot fully perk out every skill, so unlike Morrowind or Oblivion, you actually have to make choices about what skills and abilities will define your character.

Meaningful Difference Between Races
-There really isn't any less difference in races than before. If I want to be a magic class, I will likely still play a Breton or High Elf, due to their magical bonuses and extra spells to start off with, if I want to be a warrior class I will still likely play an Orc or a Redguard with their bonuses to combat skills, and Khajiit and Wood Elves still make the best stealth characters because of their bonuses. Every race being able to excell at every style is a trait that is shared in both Morrowind and Oblivion, there is no more "meaningful" difference between the races in past games than there is in Skyrim.

Less Player Choices
-I would argue that we have more choice. When developing your character, you actually have to make decisions on what skills and abilities define your character, because you can't fully perk everything, where as in Morrowind and Oblivion, there was no significant choice save for what skills you wanted to define your arbitrary class tag. But you could still fully branch out and do anything and everything in terms of skills, which meant there was no real choice. Perks in Skyrim allow you to specialize your character in ways never before seen in an Elder Scrolls game. As far as quests go, Morrowind and Oblivion were particularly linear as well, but Skyrim actually offers aspects of choice in its quests, whether it's with Paarthurnax and the Blades, the negotiations between the Stormcloaks and Imperial Legion, how to deal with Saadia, how to figure out the truth behind "A Night To Remember", or any other number of questlines with choice.

Less Diversity
-I would argue this as well. In Morrowind, a very large percentage of NPC's you encountered were Dunmer natives of Morrowind that didn't like outsiders. It is no different than the Nords in Skyrim. While Morrowind NPC's had repetitive recycled text dialogue, each voice acted NPC in Skyrim has some kind of unique story or tale to tell. I am much more invested in the NPC's in Skyrim than I ever was in Morrowind. As far as guilds, I feel there is plenty of diversity, where the College of Winterhold is completely different from the Companions, whereas in Morrowind, they were pretty much the same thing outside of the fact that one group did combat and the other group did magic.

Hmmm. Morrowind is hands down the best TES game out of the "3D" ones. So how can Oblivion be better than Morrowind, when you don't even agree? You had to qualify/excuse why you think Morrowind is better in order to align with your previous statement.

You don't have to do that, just say which one you like best. Clearly it's morrowind. And most of us that have played Morrowind agree, it's just a much better game than Oblivion.

Have BETH put improvements into the TES series? Yes absolutely. That doesn't mean the end result is overall a better game than the last. It's just technology improving and some design elements improving.

But in no way is the magic system any better, and the customization is LESS than it used to be. Less isn't always better, despite what developers try to say now.

Fallout doesen't work on my pc not sure why. And for Morrowind the original xbox game works on the 360 apparently. Oh and my laptops muse pad is awful. It's just not for gaming.

I agree that the premise is faulty. The reason it "fails" is because people are looking for criteria to make it fail. Anything can be judged to fail under this loose of a standard.

Because the expectations of a TES game are much higher than those of another open-world RPG.

Sorry, double post.

TES is just a naming convention. "The Elder Scrolls", is a marketing term to have those that are accustomed to the previous games, to try out the newer instalment. They don't even use the same game world. Marrowind, Tamriel, and Skyrim, are all different lands. So really, there is no, "TES" series.

These games are all different. I still play Oblivion. And if I weren't more partial to pretty graphics I'd play Marrowind too sometimes.

In Skyrim you play as a Dragonborn. This alone breaks the continuity between TES sort of games. Because you've always played as just another person who gains fame and glory. In skyrim your already famous, and overpowered. The Hero. Even if you play like a villian in skyrim, you still eventually save the world, as the hero.

So in the end. Their all different games with Bethesda-like mechanics. I can see mechanics pulled from Fallout 3, improved upon within Skyrim. Fallout 3 would technically be a TES game too I guess, but it isn't now, is it?

The way they do guilds is a bit hilarious. Even the NPC dialog is like "We could sneak around these dudes, or you know, just rush in and spam power attacks LULZ"

Make sure to get the GOTY version

Attributes and character classes is not something I personally feel is needed to make a RPG The strength and weakness in Morrowind and Oblivion was that you started out unique, but int the end you were the best of all things. Compare Daggerfall character creation with Morrowind and Morrowind feels like a dumbed down version. Daggerfall allowed you to create some truly unique characters with the choice of advantages and disadvantages. This was removed in Morrowind and instead you created more or less the same thief every time with the exception of Race abilities. While I don't say attributes couldn't be used in Skyrim as they could have been used quite as before and just left out the classes I do feel the current system with perks allows me to create a character better and more unique then previous games. Now my character grows with each level instead of starting out unique ending up as generic he will keep improving into the "class" I have decided in my head, for my part this feel way better then how it was in previous games, where I started out well got better and at a certain point I was best in everything.

Character choices have never been a big part of TES games. In some ways I would have hoped it should mean more, but reality is simple. Factions in previous games was a bit more fleshed out in the way that you rose in ranks, and in Morrowind some houses was unable to join once you chooses your place. But I cannot remember that my choices in Morrowind had a great impact on the game world. It had a direct impact on what faction I could join, other then that the world lived on perfectly fine without me shaping it. You could still become the leader of all major guilds and when you were the leader the effect of it wasn't really present. I hope the next game changes on this bit as I feel factions is an area where TES games really have a potential. Imagine becoming a guild leader and then you actually have to control it. Recruit people, organize quests you get from people and decide which person should take what quest etc. The micromanagement wouldn't have to be something you did each day, but maybe once a week or every 2 weeks. And there could be events that could play out that maybe the city guard tries to infiltrate the thieves guild, or maybe an assassin tries to infiltrate the fighter guild to kill the leader. These things could make factions and player choices mean so much more.

One thing they need to make sure works for next TES game tho is a proper reputation system.... That actually recognizes you for what you are.

My laptop isn't good for gaming, trust me. I have two games 1.Fallout (won't work) 2.Amnesia: The dark descent (works, but is so bad because of my touch mouse).

Will do thanks for the heads up.

Or you could buy a mouse to plug into it?

Well, it's certainly not an RPG but rather, more of an adventure game. The choices in which your character makes does not impact the world at all, or change the outcome of the end result in which you, the character, play a role in. With one dimensional conversation options, "one-click responses" offer no "role play", so let's not go about calling Skyrim an RPG before the sun sets.

Conversation responses are well done, I guess cost played a major role in only offering simplistic and one-sided responses on the player's behalf, which is clearly seen through-out the game. Selecting one option through an entire conversation is far from RPG and it will take many flips through the pages of gaming history to find a true RPG that caters to thinkers, rather than players who require their nose to be pulled through everything, as seen in many of the games of today's generation.

Call it simplicity if you will, but certainly, let's not all call it an RPG.

It was released in poor shape and got a bad rep; but the fully patched 'Epic Edition' is very solid and cheap.
The world is huge and quite well made; though not as well made as a Bethesda world. Stories are good. Voice acting is...odd lets say...but fine once you adapt.
Overall worth a look if you are the kind of gamer who can get into a world and work with it; and if you liked Morrowind you qualify.
I recently bought ME 1 but have not loaded it yet. Did you play that?

pretty sure it does...can you rent it and try it out?

It's not just "choice" but it really is about design. Saying you don't need STR/AGIL/SPEED because you have perks now is not recognizing the basic fact that a lot of RPG fans ... we just *like having stats*.

Skyrim removed most of the stats. That is not subjective. Is the net effect "similar". Yes/No depending on the stat. But you can't argue that the basic mechanic of having stats has been completely tossed aside.

Some people like streamlining in this manner. But it *is* streamlining. It's easier to have perks and not have to calculate stats like 1-100 str or having someone with 300STR glitched up etc...

But the stats are still gone. For many long time RPG players like me, that's net subtraction.

My character has no stats for AGI/STR/END/INT/WIs etc... I have 3 colored bars, which I already had with MOrrowind.

Laptop won't accept mouse's know idea why but I am not bothered, since I can get Morrowind on the 360. And btw I don't really like playing games on PC. Apart from this game ... http://games.advltswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-twitchy-online-game.html