You missed my explanation later in the thread. For me the selection of skills are not evil enough for me to play a believable necromancer, sure you can raise dead now but that's not all a necromancer does in my mind. Where's the DoTs? The Shadow Bolts? Anything unholy or evil sounding?
That video says nothing because you can't prove an opinion wrong.

The problem is that they haven't "...given mages spells for every situation...". True, I think the atronachs they do have are plenty powerful for their level, but flame atronachs are glass cannons and die pretty easily in melee against pretty much anything (so no spell for that situation like maybe a scamp, as a melee/tank, could be used). The frost atronach is a good tank, but no ranged that I've witnessed (so no spell for that situation either so another daedra summons could fill that spot). I've had my frosty get stuck in a cave and not do anything even with the enemy just a few feet away, but out of range of melee, and had to recast as he had/used no range attack. So there are spells that mages could use in certain situations that the current spells do not fit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHrlXE2PhBE Damn, Nell2Thalzzay beat me to it.


Although I could see those being used as a necromancer they do not fit in the conjuration school, imo. An Absorb Health spell would be cool or those shadow spells, but they would be better in Destruction school. (Don't know if "shadow spells" fits the TES world though).

I miss all the spells TES had in the previous installments. Personally I think Beth decided to add more flash to the magic system and in order to do that they had to kick most of them out. To bad it does not suffice.

Again, a video can't prove an opinion wrong. That's just the video filmer's way of playing what they consider a necromancer.
I have played lot's of RPGs and I feel shadow spells would fit well into conjuration, shadows could be considered masses of sentient evil, which would indeed be conjured. And how about some DoTs? Necromancers should be able to plague their victims with rotting flesh or decay, could also be conjuration I think.
As far as fitting the lore? That's a pretty weak counter argument in my opinion, Oblivion had spell creation so don't think someone could create any spell they desired?

This is all just my opinion, no one can prove it right or wrong, so it baffles me as to why you would try.

It′s sad, but I think you′re on to something here

Your opinion of necromancers is just fine. But there have never been "shadow spells" in TES that I'm aware of so they don't exactly fit in this world. Nor have there been any "rotting flesh or decay" spells. They fit your, and even my, opinion of what makes a necromancer. But that does not mean it fits into the world of TES. Just like if you read different novels that have vampires you can see different takes on what a vampire is. And not just the 1930's Bela Lugosi movie type. EDIT: like C. S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy's take on a "vampire"

Okay, I am in agreement with some of which you said. Ultimately though, only Bethesda can decide what fits into TES. It's not like any of use have seen the entire "world" of TES, just the continents we could travel to in the installments released so far.
But you're right, my rant doesn't really fit into the topic of "nerfing" since these things never existed previously, though conjuration was never really nerfed anyway since it's power was never taken away just it's selection. I guess the reason it wasn't much of a problem for me in the last game was because I could at least create a spell with effects similar to what I wanted.

You have ranged and melee atronach's so why don't you have something for every situation? Range is never ever bad, and if you need a tank, use a frost atronach and you be the ranged. You are allowed to fight yourself as a conjurer you know, it's a pretty boring way to play just summoning stuff and watching them do all the work. Like I've said before, you have spells for every situation in every school, there is no point in bethesda making 5 re-skins of the same spell, more variety is no reason to justify it, they need a purpose.

Yes, yes I did, though it got a lot less so when they started culling/resorting spells. http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mysticism#Spells had the spells I always used the most. I can't think of a single person that hasn't used Mark & Recall or Intervention spells in that game.

Frosty tends to get stuck. A lot. It'd be more useful if the damn thing was smaller.

The spell is there to use though, that's my point and if it gets stuck all the time it just needs tweaking to stop this. The wrong approach would be to make another tank that does the same job only it doesn't get stuck, because then when would you ever go back to the frost atronach. Yeah now it's more 'variety' because now you have 2 spells but you would still only be using one of them so no point at all making another, it's a complete waste of time but people does understand this :/

"I see conjuration being the next school of magic to be stripped from the game completely. That is most likely the reason for stripping it down in Skyrim, so they have a reason to remove it completely in the next game."

They wont remove Conjuration. Out of all the current schools, Illusion is prolly the one they'll remove since it is currently the one that is used the least. Mysticism was the School in Oblivion that was used the least and it got removed for Skyrim. Now, Illusion is the one that is being used the least.

I mean, look at all the spells you normally use. Which School do you never actually used in Skyrim? For me it's illusion. I always use Conjuration and Restoration no matter what. I'll use Alteration and Destruction from time to time but I never use Illusion. In Oblivion, I used all those same schools but never used Mysticism. Mysticism became useless to me after they removed teleportation spells. Illusion was useful in the past but now it is useless in Skyrim since I can't use it to control anything I want or make a Riot happen in Town. (The current Rage spells will NOT work on everybody even if you have the perks)

Actually I use it a lot; it's the best way to deal with low level but strong foes. Alteration I tend not to use other than Transmute, as casting armour spells before going into a cave is something easily forgotten. I also don't use much of restoration as I'll probably be out of magicka by the time I need to heal, and wards prevent me from doing sufficient damage.

-nvm, double post, meant to edit-

I will add this, there have been poison spells and of course there where drain spells that didn't require you to be a vampire. I think having these spells back would help the Necromancer cause.

Strange. I always have magicka no matter what for a healing spell since it doesn't take much at all (Only like 30 points for a spell that heals 180 health). I use Alteration for Paralyze. I love paralyzing those Draugr before they say Fus Ro Dah.

I probably need to invest more perks into Restoration then, I'm only level 18 and it's my first mage so I'm still not sure what I'm doing, also I thought paralyze was illusion? Guess alteration will be useful then.

yeah, you do seem to do a lot of crying about it. LOL

Neither Scamps nor Mudcrabs were in TES I: Arena or TES II: Daggerfall. One enemy that has been in every single TES game though, has been Giant Rats.

Yes, before they gutted it it was incredibly useful. Refer to the above link that was already posted. Absorb attribute spells, absorb skill, Almsivi/Divine intervention, Dispel, Mark, Recall, Reflect, Soul Trap, Spell Absorption.

I can't conjure a skeleton and to me that makes Conjuration really boring and bland another terrible design decision, thanks Bethesda.

They moved Paralyze to Alteration cause it Alter the Movement of living things. Kinda makes sense to me, you know?

And why does everyone think Conjuration gonna become Mysticism? I don't think Bethesda is that stupid! Yeah, they may have removed a lot from Conjuration, as well as other books, but they never removed the big popular stuff.

I did a poll for Oblivion once about what Summon is used the most. Guess which one won?

I never played Oblivion, starting to wish I had. I was going to get it at one point.

But I think the magic is ok, if smaller than you would expect compared to other games.
It is odd that conjoration lacks a raise the dead spell. There should be a spell to raise the dead anywere, not just from actual dead bodies. It could be a random zombie raised.
And there are no disease spells either. Which is odd.
Nore are there any epic room filling spells like in Dragon Age Origins. There are spells that fill whole areas and kill everything in range in that.
I expected spells so big they filled rooms and killed enemies en masse.
There are on most games I played.

Except, according to every poll I've seen, spellmaking was very popular and it was removed. The reason we fear the loss of more skills is because it is what they've been doing this whole time. Daggerfall - 35 skills, Morrowind - 27 skills, Oblivion - 21 skills, Skyrim - 18. If they keep going on that path eventually we'll just have three skills, Melee, thievery, and magic.

I still don't think Bethesda is that stupid to go down to that many. Also, I remember hearing that they regret removing Spellmaking because if added it, huge amounts of glitches will occur.

A Clannfear?

I miss my pet Clannfear in Skyrim