How was Conjuration nerfed? Its much more powerful in Skyrim then in Oblvion. Eliminating a dozen crappy near useless summons isn't nerfing its tree trimming.

I agree there isn't a lot of variation of spells BUT, I realise it's not worth the developers time implementing 30 spells for each school because the simple fact is people will and do only use the best spells so all these extra spells that could be in the game would never get used anyway. The developers have given mages spells for every situation and no more is needed than that. Stop calling it 'dumbing down' because it isn't. I don't understand why people have to moan about everything in this game :/

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Play necromancers is impossible in skyrim? What is a necromancer for you?

Main problem for me is the lack of shadow spells and not being able to store bodies. =3

Playing a mage in skyrim is alot better then playing a mage in oblivion i personally have no problem and see no nerfing for the mage i am also playing with Midas Magic installed.

Not sure what shadow spells are....

Storing bodies requires one to be very selective. That is for sure.

^This. I prefer the new system over the old system any day, even if there are less spells (to clutter up my spell list). And, necromancy is finally possible. I don't understand that complaint.

I disagree with this immensely. There is a severe lack of variety. And that goes back to my comment about quantity negatively affecting quality.

Aside from that, I'd argue that they don't provide adequate spells. Destruction is the perfect example. To be effective at Destruction, you have to do one of a few things. You have to exploit the enchanting system for 100% cost reduction. You have to chug magicka potions like some kind of crack addict. Or, lastly, you have to rely on low level spells like Firebolt combined with Impact. Higher level Destruction spells are so inefficient that they burn through magicka too fast to be all that useful. So unless you use the first two options, you're forced to rely on the low level spells you picked up at the beginning of the game. But for those to be useful, you HAVE to dual cast them and rely on stunlocking your opponent. Even then, you still often have to rely on other spell schools, like Conjuration, to get by. It makes for a very dull and repetitive play style. A very poor quality experience.

Agree.

I think part of the problem with this iteration is the shout ability. It functions like magic and we all have access to it, and magic wound up being neutered for shouts to be strong.
Not that many of our shouts do not already overlap with spell abilities that still exist, but I think that is part of the problem.

I do miss the great magics in the previous games, now we have to lean on Midas magic (if on a PC) to try to bring some of the "magic" back into magic, or if on a console consider being a warrior.

Shadow spells would be like bolts of darkness or other spells that would be dealing with pure evil. The current spells just don't seem evil enough to call myself a necromancer. The raise dead spells are a step in the right direction though.

I see. i just trem Necromancy for what it is. Raising the dead. However, the addition of evil-like spells would be a plus. I will turn down no additions.

Perhaps I'm too spoiled from the RPGs I played in the past, I'm sure many others can relate to that. =3
I hate to pull the Immersion card, but I just can't get into a necromancer build in Skyrim.

I counter your argument with alchemy.

Alchemy has amazing variety, potions for every single possible situation and all I do with alchemy is sell potions for easy gold. There are too many types of potion, where do I draw the line at what I will and won't use, I decided to draw the line at not bothering with alchemy at all because it 's not worth the time to mess around with and that is a classic case of where too much variety destroys the quality of experience as you put it. There will be some people who utlize everything alchemy has to offer but i bet 99% or players lean more towards my point of view.

The same would happen with spells, when you unlock better spells you never use the old spells again so why bother, I could see an argument for more variety at the max levels but certainly is not needed anywhere else.

The game can't handle ash piles of respawning enemies and confusing stuff happens. Unless Besthesda actually patched that, but I never believe anything Bethesda says about its games.

> Not sure what the other "Utility" spells/perks are in Conjuration

I'm mainly thinking of the perks that modify the way your conjurations behave. (Increased range and/or duration, automatic soul-trapping/banishing, etc.) Dead thralls having more abilities than Oblivion's "I shamble up and swing ssslllooowwwlllyyy at the target" zombies is a big plus too.


WRT quality over quantity, I also prefer the former. Sure, there were a larger number of individual creatures to summon in Oblivion (and Morrowind), but most of those would sit unused in your spell list because they were rendered obsolete by a handful of others. By contrast, the three types of atronachs and the dremora have distinct abilities and don't render one another redundant.

Might just be my opinion, but I'd say that massive and baseless assumption you make about 99% of the players makes your entire argument null and void. Alchemy has a lot of variety and that makes it very flexible and useful. You may not need everything it can do all the time, but when you do need it, it's nice to have it. Admittedly, I don't use alchemy much, but that has nothing to do with it's variety. I just don't like relying on consumables. But when I do need it or choose to use it, I'm quite glad that it has the effects that I need or desire.

Alchemy is pretty much what it has always been. It hasn't been gutted like magic has been. You might praise the system for being stripped down to the bare necessities (which I would say is even debatable), I'm sorry, that's not adequate. It might be fine if I were playing for only 30 hours, but in a game that can easily last 200 to 300 hours, it becomes very repetitive and very dull.

Mages still have far more options to them in battle than warriors or assassin's, for me fun comes from a challenge, not a game packed with things I'll rarely or never use. Quality over quantity always.

First I'd like to thank Beth for fixing the dead thrall problems I had been having. But I'd also ask that dead thralls were much stronger. As they're already dead, so I think they should be harder to kill. And I kind of just want more thralls at once, and maybe dremora lord thralls? But I mostly miss my Xivilai. That was my favorite creature to conjure up

Then go play an FPS or something. I play RPGs for their customization and flexibility. And that's something Skyrim lacks when it comes to magic. You're constantly falling back to the exact same spells for hundreds of hours.

That lack of quantity has made for a rather poor quality experience.

Conjuration was amazing in the previous games. It is terrible in Skyrim.

Pretty much every school of magic in Skyrim svcks.
I feel maybe more went into making the world beautiful than anything else? Or maybe they felt that dumbing magic down was a good idea? I'm not sure what the reason would be.

What spells would you like to see? and why? but please don't say just because it's more stuff, they must have some purpose to them.

Conjuration wasn't "nerfed", it was "streamlined". Don't you know the difference? Now put on your dunce cap, and go stand in the corner.

The "Raise Dead" family of spells is actually handled pretty well. Ditto for Atronachs and all Thralls, they work just fine. Bound weapons are also fine. Bound armor is a victim of steamlining.

Of course, the Dremoras are the biggest offenders. Because EVERYTHING is a Dremora now, even Sanguine. "Dremoras have always served Dagon, but it was not always so". Gee, no kidding? If anything, there should be NO Dremoras in Skyrim, because their master got his daedric [censored] handed to him.

Mods to the rescue I suppose..?

AAhhh ok, got it. But we should have an "necromancy tree" for that, i guess its not in Bethesda planning. Well, i can give you some advices. In my opinion, conjuration is fine with necromancy (raising dead bodies), better than previous games. You can choose few perks of another trees to fill your necromant abilities

1. Poisons in alchemy tree

2. Fear in Ilusion tree (you can stop in expert spells if you like, with dual-cast you can fear anything (with master of mind perk) but dragons.

3. In stealth tree you can pick "shadow warrior"

4. In pickpocket you can choose poisoned.

5. I would choose lightning spells in destruction, i always feels like dark spells to me (kind of "darkside of the force")


I dont know if it works, just trying to help your gaming experience.

What they made with Mannimarco in Oblivion is bad enough. Thank the Nine for the small mercy of no "bolts of pure evilness" ;P Really, since when necromancer=evil is the rule?