Little replay value? Hah..

It certainly adds a dimension to the game initially, but how many people just look up and see what the best reward is for whatever option? The point is somewhat lost in many cases, because I'm gonna choose the option that gets me the better thing. I don't want to make a new character just to get a new toy, anyways.

The problem is though, most of the options in the quests did nothing in the actual game world itself, and only had consequences that existed in some post-game cutscene.

Choices that you cant expresss in the game itself mean little, or should I say mean nothing, at all.

The only thing New Vegas did in the game itself was cause NPCs to vanish, or cause one group of generic NPCs from one faction to replace a group of generic NPCs from another, and maybe throw in a random guard dialog.

For me, not more choices, but the choices you do make having a noticeable effect on the world is what is lacking.

Sure some people may do that but I dont. I just make the moral choice i would make in real life or if I want to play a villian ill just make the A Hole choice, but at least you have that choice.
Unlike in ES, sure its open world but your choices really dont matter at all to the affect they do in games like Fallout, Mass Effect or KOTOR.

Choices/Options are always better than having none.

I think EVERYBODY wants more choices and dialogue options.

Oh..it had impact. Like how other factions seen you and therefore set aggro when you came about.

That isnt true at all. it did have an affect on the way factions treat you. And also, it would let you do a quest in a different way you see fit. There was always two or three different ones you could complete the task. Skyrim really has none of that excpet for a few quests here and there.

And if you dont want to use Fallout as an example then use KOTOR or Mass Effect.

Those three games are how the dialog threes should work not the way they do in ES/Skyrim

Its just not as fun

Most of the time though, the factions getting pissed off made no sense.

I could kill 4 leigion memebrs in the middle of the desert, with no one around to witness me do it, and yet I was automatically sent to vilifed status........... whut?

Or like the NCR getting pissed at you for plugging in the El-Dorado substation for house........ despite no one seeing me go in there.

It was impact based on illogical primises.

Mass effect and Kotor were also highly linear RPGs that could do that only becuase everything you did was in a relativly set, and planned, order.

The same thing happens in skyrim. You can kill someone with no one around but in the city they are from you still have a bounty on your head and the guards attack you.

That is annoying in both games.

False, entierly.

Attacking someone in the middle of nowhere get you a bounty when you first assault them, but the bounty is atomatically removed on death as you killed the last witness. It even says "bounty rmeoved last witness killed" on the screen.

if you do it in town with no one around, the bounty sticks. It just happened to me before I came on here to post.

The bounty only sticks if someone is around to witness it, I have gotten off with kills in towns before, and the same "last witness killed bounty removed" thing came up.

someone saw you.

So, you are going to hit and run with a PM? Ok...I will leave you with this small list to dwell on, my friend.

"A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."
~Lord Halifax

"There can be no defence like elaborate courtesy."
~E.V. Lucas

"It's not a slam at you when people are rude - it's a slam at the people they've met before."
~F. Scott Fitzgerald

"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."
~Eric Hoffer

Says the rude child: "No, I won't do it." Says the courteous grown-up: "Yes, I won't do it."
~Mignon McLaughlin, The Neurotic's Notebook, 1960

"We are so vain that we even care for the opinion of those we don't care for"
~Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

+1

TES in general usually has a lot more individual quests though, no?

If a house behind closed doors where they were the only person in the house?
Unless someone "heard me' but I never liked that answer.

But anyways. back to the dialog tree. I really hope at somepoint the ES series gets a better dialog tree.

TES is a world of mostly simple people with simple worries, losing ones journal in a cave for instance

Fallout is a world where almost everything you do has to have some large impact on the world. Everything is some "fate of this outpost" or "without this we wont have power!" emergency.

Its one of the things I dont like about Fallout, it feels too..... I don't know... constructed, like it was designed to give you visable impacts of quest choises, and not some natural thing. It short it feels fake.

Not sure, I always tend to put in more hours in Fallout games than I do ES games.
it always seems the main quest in the ES games are super short but you do have more side quests.

Where as in FO you mahy have less side quests but the main quest is much longer.

What i think is the single most important aspect of a truly epic questline, is variety. By that I mean choice. It can be a great story, but most questlines are just an...electronic book.

I want choice, in dialog. I want those choices to be available pending my character's...

• Race
  
• Gender
  
• Skills
  
• Accomplishments of my character thus far
  
• Their clothes and or armor
  
• The weapon they are carrying
  
• What they have in their current inventory
  
• Reputation
  
• The dialog choices made thus far in a conversation

I want choice on how to start a quest.
I want choice on who to side with during a quest.
I want choice in how to complete a quest.
I want multiple branches that will lead to multiple endings.

If these elements are not implemented, you are just going through the motions of reading an electronic book. One that has the pages turned by the exhaustion of dialog. Which, in turn, has no affect on the story one way or the other. That is not dialog choice. It's dialog advancement.

I want choice and consequence.

What does this have to do with choices in quests?

Why is the moral and ethical ramifications of a choice unimportant simply because the outcome is revealed at the end of the game? How are quest paths that take advantage of different skill sets not valuable regardless of whether it impacts the larger narrative or not?

Are you serious? Most quest lines in TES involve extremely powerful forces with potentially world shattering consequences. Meddling deities is a very real and common occurance. Fallout, on the other hand, is decidedly not like that. Quests usually only concern specific people or townships. Only the big, main story quests have significant impact.

I think Skyrim already got way too many things from Fallout 3. The grey tint on everything, the sound effect of successful critical hit to an enemy,the reduced facial animations of NPCs,the system that allows you to level up anywhere,the engine...

You can play as a "bad" character in TES too. If you are feeling a bad boy,go join the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieves Guild. Or start doing the chores for the Daedric Princes. Or is it a system that you seek,one that will give you "goodness" points or "evilness" points ?

The choices in Fallout seem to have more impact than they do in the ES games, esp since you get more choice in the fallout games, it seems no matter what pick in the dialog tree in ES, you always get the same outcome with the exception of a few major choices about picking sides in skyrim

Say what now? No it did not. You could get along without it just fine. You also can pass speech checks with your other skills as well.

Yes you can align with the bad guys in the game, but there are not good or bad moral choices like there are in Fallout, Mass Effect or KOTOR.
You can still do all those bad side quests but you still will get the same ending no matter what you do.

Where as those other games you can get different endings depending on if you were a good or bad character.

Like I said before, the very first quest you get , with that archer guy asking you to pass a fake note to the bards love interest. You have no way of not taking the quest and telling him just to piss off, or even no i wont do that.

You have to just take the quest, then just chose to ignore it. Why isnt there an option to just say NO?

The game should be about choices to mold the world the way you want, and if this was ME, KOTOR or FO NV you would be given that choice.

I wwant to see more choices like that for every quest, and also different ways of doing or even screwing up a quest (if you are evil) in the ES series

Exactly there were always multiple ways to accomolish something. For example, you can use a speech check to get the answer, or you could hack a computer to get an answer or you could complete a quest. There were always multiple ways to do something. The speech check was always a good one to have because it gave you more options in the dialog tree but it was never needed to be maxed to accomplish anything.