You would always RP a character with no interest in saving the world. My bosmer was a thief on the way to Riften when she got picked up by the imperials. She killed Gerder, took her clothes and money, then used it to head off to Riften and join the thieves guild. When she got caught by the Huscarl in Dragon reach when she went there to use the enchanting table, she sprouted some crap about being a messenger from Helgen, but headed the other way and left when the Huscarl's back was turned.

She is on the way to Solitude now to chase down a lead for the thieves guild, but my join the legion while she is there.

And guess what? No dragons. You can play a no-name character and ignore the MQ, the same as oblivion.

Your talking about every video brother.

Cheers

Not particulary easy to ignore the MQ since your forced down that road from the beginning, the game play and the world are very enjoyable, the story however is far from consistant, I'm not talking about lore, I'm talking about the fact nothing really changes, in 100s of hours of game play I've never once "felt" the consequences of my characters actions(good or bad) and yet in Fallout 3 I did, there were two instances in the whole time I felt anything in Skyrim, the burnt down house in Morthal and giving gold to a farmer and his wife who were later killed by a bear, that's it.

The dialogue at innapropriate moments can also throw you, example, I just killed a dragon in Winterhold, then a guard pipes up "keep your hands to yourself sneak thief"; not only is my character not a theif because at this point they've not stolen anything, but that guard just witnessed my character destroy a dragon and help save lives, it's like the story writers could not be bothered with consistancy, just throw it in the mix.

I wouldn't mind being the chosen one or whatever bullsh*t the local citizens believe in IF it has a nice, long build-up. I defeated a dragon which happened to get engulfed in flames and it's soul danced around me for a few sec so now I'm officially a Dragonborn? I can use the shout, hurray. That's it? No one questions, no one even thinks I might be an impostor doing magic tricks and most of all, no one gives two cents about what my character thinks. They want stuff done so they just order the hero to do it. A lot of things could be done by the NPCs themselves ranging from petty deliveries to fighting a few bandits. Yet, I should do it. Despite being the hero and Thane of all holds, I deliver salt and go around looking for mammoth tusks for some random merchant.

It would be great if it could be a little more drawn out. The original poster is right: You can pretty much become the next god in a few hours without any questions asked or serious dilemmas faced. And the worst of all, after you have saved everyone's [censored] you are still treated like some petty thief.

As big and detailed as Skyrim is, you have to fill in some of the blanks with your imagination. It's interesting to me that we have reached a sort of "uncanny valley" of immersion, where games are extremely detailed to the point of exposing how artificial things are sometimes. In Morrowind, I don't remember being bothered that NPCs didn't move or that stores were open at 3 AM; and the same goes for games like BGII. The technical limitations of older games forced us to add color to the gameworld ourselves. The truth is that games are still years away from delivering a truly immersive experience, where the game engine is capable of taking the breadth of player choice/action into account.

If you are dismayed by the ability to become the head of every guild, then... don't. It's easy to strip the veneer off of Skyrim to expose its "game-ness" by putting buckets over NPC's heads to steal, crafting iron daggers to smithing 100, etc, but if you "ruin" the game for yourself, it's kind of your fault.

I liked the mystery of how Morrowind did the main quest. It did not seem to force anything down your throat and you was just swept up in the storyline. I would like something like that again in an Elder Scrolls game. I was not aware I was in the main quest until it started getting more involved with the Sixth House, when the Dreamers start showing up and the Sleepers awake.

It was a very well done quest line that was not thrust upon you.

I like the epic sweeping narratives and sweeping tales. I play a lot of games for their story like Final Fantasy and Parasite Eve. I have always liked epic stories and no it has never gotten old to me. Lord of the Rings is a good comparison when talking about heroes, I would jot have fared as much about that story if we followed some simple horse riders.

I do also like the Sims. It's just addictive to make your own house however you want to make it. I also roleplay in that game too it just makes it more fun overall. The game just brings out your creativity, you can pretty much build your house and furnish it however you wish.

Saving the World wouldn't be as bad if the NPCs were more grateful. I am saving them from a Dragon attack and one guard gets in the way of my attack and all the sudden I am the bad guy. Now I have to fight all the guards and the dragon and at the end I have to either pay the fine or go to jail.

Saving the world is simple enough to understand and dramatic. Between those two, I doubt the game industry will be getting away from it any time soon.

Not sure if been said but...

I would prefer to be a contribution in something much larger than myself. I want something that feels personal. I want my character to want to defeat Alduin and Dagon and Dagoth Ur etc because he has a personal stake in it, not because he's arbitrarilly the chosen one.

Don't undermine the "being just a cog" instead of the center of the universe as being the opposite of adventure and fun. It doesn't have to be. Imagine you having to defeat Alduin because it is the only way to save your lvoed one/mother father, or because he posesses an artifact that you need to become famous or rich... except you are not a super potentially powerful dragonborn... you are simply a crafty and brave or simply determined character that has to be better and smarter or stronger than an ancient dragon.

In daggerfall you are simpyl an imperial agent... and you have to interact with beings of far greater power than you, and still your actions define the fate of the empire. You didn't have a storyline shoved in your face because OH you're the special one.

That's what the "I'd rather be a cog in the machine" folks are defending.

I played all the NWN games and Mask of the Betrayer is definitely one of my favorite ones. Come to think of it, I never felt like the main savior in most NWN games. It was more about taking care of certain problems etc. Although, the world was restricted by loading screens, all the earlier NWN games felt very immersive.

I've said it before, Bethseda has a lot to learn from Bioware, when it comes to relationship issues and/or NPC reactions/interactions with your character (NWN: Hordes of the Underdark - all time fav. Love Valen <3 hehe).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE HUGE TES fan and I love the open world of Tamriel. But I guess, after Oblivion, which was one of my all time fav games, I had high expectations for the next installment in the TES series. Did I set my expectations too high? After waiting for over five years for the next game, did I anticipate things that are still beyond what Beth can do?

How hard is it to write a few rules in the NPC program, in order to create some consequences for our actions?

EDIT: Someone just said that they want to care about the story line. I guess that's what I loved about Oblivion. Martin Septim - I cared about him! I cared that he was insecure, that he wanted to do what is necessary to help Cyrodiil/Tamriel. I would've walked into the hells of Oblivion for him... which I did LOL

I really like the idea that the reason for completing the MQ would be for personal reasons and not just to save everyone from terrible pain and anguish. In a game like it really doesn't matter whether you are the "good guy" or the "bad guy" since they both are motivated by their personal feelings.

actually you do it also for yourself. if everyone is dead, you are not going to survive that long.

I must be close to 300 hours played by now, and I have yet to save any world or become grandmaster of any guild. I don't understand the question...

Lits of good points here.
Anyone played The Witcher 1 and 2?
Those are centralized around revenge, with you being a puppet tossed around getting involved in things you don't want to.
Those were fun.

It wasn't really shoved down your throat in Skyrim. The dragon incident just created a state of confusion; the "end of the world" doesn't come into play until Up until that point, the dragons are just a mysterious complication occurring during the civil war resulting in isolated attacks. Unlike Oblivion's main quest, which from the very beginning was pretty much screaming "THE WORLD WILL END IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT JAUFFRE/MARTIN SAYS RIGHT THIS MINUTE! GO GO GO!" The other games were considerably more subtle when it came to Dagoth Ur and Alduin's threat.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Console#Example_for_using_a_Batch_File_to_create_an_alternative_start

Wouldn't mind playing the Antagonist for a change, hell it'd be very different

most of the complaints i remember were specifically towards the respawn issue where you could walk a couple hundred feet away and then turn back and the npcs had magically respawned. i was one of the loudest complainer back then because there was no way to change with mods or change the code and it was a HUGE issue that completely ruined an otherwise fantastic game. everytime i try and go back i just give up in frustration because of how [censored] annoying that is. hopefully someone someday figures it out because other than that it was one of my favorite games. instead of a SDK all we go was some lame map editor. i dont remember to much complaining about the quest line because it was billed as an open world game similar to far cry 1.

STALKER is the series i like to point to for game design. it a perfect mix of first person shooter and rpg elements (yes i know this is a fantasy game forum). you were given a mission which was very important but not "save the world" important and you were left to fend for yourself and figure out how to complete it. there were quest markers per se but you had to find the actual quest givers on your own. it was also a much more punishing game than TES series and for me at least alot more fun in that regards. while its a much smaller game world i can rp an artifact hunter or become a bandit or mercenary or just a lone stalker hunting muties. sometimes i would just drink a bunch of vodka (usually just in game) and go out into the wild at night in nothing but my undies with a shotgun and some grenades and just blow stuff up.

as for the mainquest to defeat alduin.........it doesnt really make any sense from the get go. alduin saved my ass from a beheading. i want to buy him an ale not kill him. who wrote that mainquest?

I disagree. I just think that things like NPC's who follow schedules aren't important for immersion, just like graphics aren't really that important. What is important is the story, dialogue, character development on the one side, and then the combat system, character development system, and UI on the other side (sounds trivial, but a clunky UI can ruin a really good game).

Same here. Maybe someday, on a side Nord character, I'll do the MQ and the guilds (much like how eventually -- literally years after starting Oblivion -- I finally did the MQ).

My two current mains, started after a few days of initial "experimental" gameplay on a test character, specifically avoid guilds and the MQ like the plague. Neither has ever continued the MQ after exiting Helgen.

That is because for my characters being the savior of Skyrim and the dragonborn does not make sense at all. I am thankful we do not have to be "the man" just like in Oblivion we could exit the sewers, drop off the amulet with Jaufree, and then never touch that MQ again (if we so chose).

I'm not tired of saving the world just yet, but I'm always open for a change of pace.

An ES title with your character being a sellsword or an Average Joe adventurer would be nice... but it could potentially be boring and repetitive as well. I just wish that Bethesda would sometimes give us tangible rewards when we do save Tamriel from time to time. That would make world saving worthwhile for me.

Not in my game. When I played my very first character Ralof told my character that we'd better split up. So I did. We headed over to Riften. I played that character for about 50 hours blissfully unaware of any main quest.

Our characters are not told to go to Whiterun and tell the Jarl about the Dragon unless we go to Riverwood. And both Ralof and Hadvar tell us to split up (encouraging us not to go to Riverwood). So I don't see how the main quest is forced on us.

From an in-game, roleplaying perspective (which is how I play) I have no responsibilities to anyone, to do anything, after I exit Helgen. As far as I'm concerned Skyrim forces the main quest on a player less than Morrowind did.

What I'm curious about is how with the last three games (the only TES games I've played) you always start out as a prisoner. Why is that? Why do you need to start as a prisoner all the time? Why can't you begin as some joe-average in whatever town minding your own business, only to be thrust on a new path toward your destiny? Or perhaps you're a noble that falls from grace, only to find your true destiny doing XYZ?

If you trying to compare this game to Baldurs gate II, stop it. You just can't. TES is a totally different game. The epic story you had with Baldurs gate II is not going to return soon. I know Skyrim feels like a rushed game. You become the Archmage too soon, or leader of the Thieves guild for example. However if you don't want to become Archmage, just don't. The game is free of choices. No one tells you you HAVE to join a certain guild. Allthough Im somewhat annoyed by some characters in game who don't recognize my standing (as for example Vekel the Man,he keeps saying I'm Brynnjolf's new protege even while I'm the best thief around). If you don't want to save the world then just reign chaos and kill everyone you see. No one demands you to follow a certain quest line. And If you feel that you still want to complete those questlines without joining a guild or ending the MQ, just stop playing Skyrim. Then this is not a game for you.