Usually plots thicken, but not so much in Skyrim, it's all very superficial. All the kinks, like being leader of multiple guilds aside, Beth would seriously benefit from hiring some of the old RPG writers from back when table top RPGs were da thang. I've played some seriously scary and wildly awesome scenarios in my time. Imagine getting some creative writers on board to expand the actual quest lines and sub-plots. Wet dream

In Morrowind there were tons of quests in each guild (and there were 11 guilds as well). So slowly gained reputation and rank so you felt that at some point you deserved to be guildleader.

If you didn't want to become guildleader than you shouldn't do so much good work for the guild, just stop at some point and keep the current rank you have. However I understand this isn't much of an option as in Skyrim you only get 8 quests before they name you leader.

Nevertheless most people do set out to rise the ranks and become leader. it is disappointing that it happens so soon, but it should happen nonetheless. It is afterall one of the main points in a RPG: becomming amazing. So when you max a skill or finish a guild, it just becomes less fun. This is okay, because it is also about the journal and not just the destination. You just have to know when to stop. If you're 35 hours into a character and he/she has done all you'd like to do than stop playing for a while or start over.

Good points, but that is your perspective. Players can be immersed in a world, a game, or a good story, but rarely does a game pull off more than one form.. For example, I was deeply immersed in Dragon Age: Origins' story and characters, but I knew that I was playing a video game; the world is fragmented rather than cohesive. One of my personal "most immersive games" isn't even an RPG; it's Metroid Prime. But that game doesn't offer much in the way of narrative, just context. Skyrim offers an world that in many ways, feels alive, ancient, and lived in by the NPCs, but the technology is still years from creating a truly immersive experience where the world feels like it could exist without the player's involvement.

Yes, the story and characters lack sometimes depth. Yes, the game and character development systems can be rather shallow and exploited, but I think the way Skyrim is best enjoyed is to imagine a character concept and pick and choose questlines based on that character, not just do everything because it happens to be in your quest log. However, I think we can both look forward to years down the road and what these games will be like when gameworld, gameplay, and narrative truly come together.

It's so easy to say "I'm tired of saving the world" and not offer any solution. OP and anyone else please suggest a main quest that is not saving the world that would be worth your time for 20 hours. Let's get some real dialog going here.

As far as heading the guilds, there should be leveling and reputation gained to earn that spot. More like Morrowind over Skyrim's highway to infamy.

Honestly, I'd love to have an Altmer be able to join the Thalmor. It'd be pretty cool to have a main quest totally change by choosing to side with the "bad guys".
Also, why can't the Bretons join up with the Forsworn? The most you ever seem to be able to be is "Honorary Forsworn"... it'd be nice to join their side, and drive both the empire and the stormcloaks out of Skyrim.

There's plenty of factions I'd love to join. Why can't I become a witch? I can't seem to join up with any brigands outside of the thieves guild either...

While I think we should still have the "be a hero thing", I think we should still have the ability to either Be A Villain or Take a Third Option...

Something I really liked in Morrowind was the House Telvanni questline where you get to choose wither you want to become the head of the house or help your former master become it. It never felt right for me, an outlander to suddenly become grandmaster when you had these 1000 year old mages waiting in the wings, so I always chose to help him. Something along these lines in Skyrim and beyond (as an option) would surely help both those that want to roleplay, and those who want to collect titles.

The main quest is optional you know.

I wonder if there's something "American" about save-the-world stories. Hercules, Jason, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, and many of the ancient myths aren't about saving the world, although they are about finding the special relic, slaying the monster, storming the castle, and saving the girl. America, or maybe more specifically Hollywood, gives us James Bond (British character, American story), Superman, Independence Day, and so forth. There's an identifiable evil supervillain plotting to destroy the world (usually for no other reason than that they're evil), and the hero saves it. We even tend to cast our wars in this mold, so World War II in Hollywood is usually about stopping Hiltler the individual and his goons and not about the more diffuse evil of ultra-nationalism (which is often the lens through which Europeans view the war), I'm not necessarily saying that's all bad, but I think it's interesting that we (those of us that are Americans) tend to be drawn to those sorts of stories. And obviously, not all Hollywood movies fit this mold (although an awful lot do). However, I also agree with the OP that there are many other options for classic hero stories, in which the goal isn't to save or rule the world, but to overcome an extraordinary personal obstacle in order to settle down and be an ordinary person. Some of the side quests in the Elder Scrolls are more compelling than the MQ perhaps for this reason.

Why can't I open the plains of Oblivion again?

Exactly. I've seen others post: "Main quest? What's that?"

I would also like to note in Oblivion you didnt save the world.

To which there were MANY complaints that the game didn't make your character important enough.

Even though you became the Madgod in the expansion?

I imagine that is why they did that in the expansion. A compromise as such. I recall many felt the job they did in the main game could have been done by anyone, not specifically you (if they had the skills). The first thing many people did (including me) when they got the amulet was try it on. After reaching Weynon Priory, the game was all about Martin, not you. In Morrowind, you were the pinnacle of all things. Now they've restored that level of power to your character in Skyrim, people complain. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It's because it's forced into every questline. You're not just the chosen one to battle Alduin, you're also the "chosen one" to lead the College of Winterhold, the Thieves Guild, and so on. It's overused and they need to go back and remember what guilds are for in TES games.

I was only referencing the main quest. If you look further up the thread you'll see a comment I made about House Telvanni quests in Morrowind.

I was actually happy with oblivion's ending even though the main quest itself was a letdown. The problem with "save the world" characters is that after you have saved the world, any additional quests just seem so silly to do. OK.......I saved the world......now what?

Games like STALKER, Dues EX and the Fallout games where you aren't saving the world but instead just doing something very important like defeating the Enclave in that area or deciding the fate of the Hoover Damn or just locating some missing stalker or four crashed helicopters, don't have that issue and for me at least the side quests are more meaningful because they aren't constantly being compared to me just stopping a nuclear war. I like my character to be important and have an impact but i also want to be something feasible and believable.

I am not saving the world, nor any of my chars are the Dovahkiin, also i try as hard as i can to stay away from the main dragonborn storyline and just adventuring, exploring, getting wealth and building my items.

I been having lots of fun doing just that... when i get bored i may try to do the storyline as Dovahkiin since i havent done so.

I am mostly playing as a character who has nothing to do with the dragonborn, but did got arrested by the Imperials... i did get to meet the Dragonborn but after i scaped Helgen i havent heard much about him and also havent encountered any dragons after Alduin in helgen (must be a trigger that enables dragons after completing Whiterun Jarl quest).

its a pc game... ditch console then, seriously they can't [censored] up our versions because of the consoles.

Or they could stop letting themselves be limited by voice acting. A lot of Nintendo games get by just fine without extensive voice acting. Same with Morrowind.

I understand your attitude, but the point of this thread is to provide Beth with some constructive criticism so they can make their next game better. I really think that on their next project if they just spent less time on world development (they've got that down to near perfection by now) and more time on dialogue, STORY, NPC development, character level development, and then those little mechanical things that detract from or add to immersion, they would have the greatest game of all time on their hands.

With the money they are now making and the skill they have developed with world design, I would imagine that if they were creative (which they are) they could figure a way to spend about the same amount of creative man hours on the world design, and significantly increase the time they spend on the aforementioned game features, which combined are more important to an RPG.

RPG is still in my mind, and in the minds of many other people (including you, it seems) the best RPG of all time... and it came out in 2000. The subsequent Bioware games had great storylines, but most ended up svcking (excepting Mask of the Betrayer) because they had HORRIBLE world design, UI design, graphics, et cetera. It was really just pathetic considering the type of stuff Bathesda was putting out at the same time.

If you combined Skyrim with Baldur's Gate II - you'd have the best RPG ever made. Bathesda can make it happen. Lets help them by making suggestions for their next game while we enjoy this one.

but dragon age origins made sense, you were the last of a special order who protected the world from darkspawn and you had to find a way to stop them you were not just a random prisoner.

You can "become amazing" without being (1) a Messianic figure in every story, and/or (2) becoming the head of all the organizations you join. You become amazing through leveling. I don't really have a problem with being the Archmage, Master Thief, or whatever . . . But it HAS to be done in a way that doesn't make you say "that's it?" when you achieve it (and I'm using the word achieve lightly here - it's a video game after all).

That's what I said when I was made Archmage in Skyrim. I honestly thought that when I finished what ended up being the last quest in the entire line, I was only finishing the first full "quest" in a much longer line of quests that would eventually end with me being archmage. I was really pretty surprised that they were like - "Oh cool, Mr. Paladin, even though you're not really that good at magic, we're going to make you archmage. Preesh."

Don't get me wrong, the quest line was pretty cool. I just didn't like how that was all of it. I had only become a "student" like 3 days earlier (which also didn't make sense. I just wanted to be able to buy spells. I looked silly next to the other kids as a "new student" wearing full legendary glass armor and carrying Dawnbreaker and Azura's star).