Meh, It's alright to do once or twice, but after that i just ignore the MQ. It's not the main attraction to TES for me.

I agree with Guilds, i dont want to be the leader all the time.

Simple solution: Stop helping people. Run from enemies that you know will be a [censored]. Collect ale. Read the books. Do something ELSE (gasp!) than questing and being a hero/sellsword.

It isn't an open world for nothing.

I'm starting to hate more the fact that the world doesn't give a @#%$! about me saving the world.

In Morrowind I was still greeted as an outlander, in Oblivion, despite being a close friend to the last emperor and a hero as well, I had to leave Ocato running the empire. In Skyrim... I'm the Dragonborn as Reman and Tiber before me and I end up being the errand boy of a Jarl or a general

Re: OP , I think this is a problem in the wider genre of fantasy / sci-fi as much as in RPGs. I mean, look at all the books & movies in the genre that use that same tired formula. I don't really care for it, either, no.

I don't think Baldur's Gate II is quite fair of a comparison, though, because TES (including Skyrim) are a much more open-world RPG than BG2, iirc?

Re: all the comparisons of Skyrim with FO3 / FNV. I know FNV was Obsidian's writing, but FO3 was Beth - and it didn't do a bad job with the open-world decisions / reactions. I am starting to suspect the writers that work on TES are not the same writers who worked with FO3.

As some other poster said, Skip the Main Quest in the game. Right now I have not fleshed out her back story completely yet. However my new Character Raven Nyghtwind for RP purposes had no connection to the beginning scene of execution or dragons attacking the world. She is more connected to the civil war on a different level and was sent to kill certain persons involved. On the other hand I rather feel better with this main quest then I did in Oblivion. In TES 4, I was nothing more then Martin's gopher. He was the one who saved the world, not me.

I know alot of people liked NV. I myself just could not get into the game for some reason. I tried to twice and there was just something that turned me off about the gameplay and story.


I think there were different programmers also. The place item system was so much better in FO3 then Skyrim, which is crap. The writting I also agree you on.

But Obsidian could only really pull this off because they had a definitive ending to the game. They gave you real choice about being a prime actor in influencing the course of events in a profound way and then told you what the results of your chosen path were. When Bethesda gave Fallout 3 an ending, they had a lame choice of saving the world or messing it up for a faction you couldn't even join and was always hostile to you. And then people freaked out so badly they had to release a DLC to reset to Bethesda territory of you've saved the world but no-one really cares. And people were apoplectic about New Vegas ending, even though it warned you it would and only forced you to avoid one climatic battle until it did.

Bethesda are bound up with making TES a sandbox game that has to give you as much to do as possible for as long as possible. IMO it would be better if you were forced to align yourself to one guild only and perhaps become head of that one guild if you do enough, with specific benefits/drawbacks of being with that guild. And when the game ends, you get told the result of your choice(s). But then people would whine they can't do every single thing with one character.

Bethesda are not great writers - some of the writing in Skyrim is pretty good, some is just dreadful (like the ridiculous, nonsensical quest you have to do to get noticed by the Dark Brotherhood), but I think they are held back by the fans as much as anything. They can never give you real choice because it is impossible to reflect all the variables in post MQ play, so they have to give you a MQ with one outcome. And that outcome will always be saving the world because that's what you did lin the last game and anything less would be an anti-climix.

Bethesda could do great things with TES - they could engineer it so how you perform the main quest and a set of key side quests results in an outcome that influences the game world for better or ill with shades of grey like New Vegas pulled off. But they cannot do that even if they were able to pull sufficient quality writing out the hat because that would mean - at a set point - a definitive end to the game and the fans would simply not accept that (though I've never myself understood why). So you will go on saving the world and being masters of all guilds because Bethesda have to design the game so you can do everything forever, not forge a set path with specific consequences for what you do.

I agree with the OP.

I just started the game with a new character. I didn't want this one to be the Dragonborn and save the world. But avoiding it would be immersion breaking. Because you're immediately asked to let the Jarl know about Dragons. A good character would do that. But then the main quest is forced on you, just like Oblivion.

Also if you don't do the main quest to a certain point, you can't buy a house in Whiterun. But I don't want this character to be the Dragonborn and I don't want this character to be a thane.

But even with the Main Quest, it would be nice to have it not be about saving the world. I guess the developers feel they need to do that for "epic-ness" or something.

I saved it once and ever since all the rest of my characters have either been bad guys killing strangers for profit or mere knights/blacksmiths trying to survive in a dragon-filler country.

All true, but the people walking around don't know your dad is Bhaal. The dude behind the counter at the store (Ribald, I want to say?) doesn't know you can turn into a demon at will, so it makes sense that he treats you just like any other sap that walks in. Same with the city guards.

Regardless, I don't like the argument that I can just not do the main quest. Why? Two reasons - (1) my existence in the game has no overriding point, and (2) it doesn't make sense that my character would just blow that off. From basically the get go, your character knows that the world is under attack by dragons and that he is a super powerful "chosen one" type who can absorb dragon souls and breathe fire. Even if he weren't interested in saving the world from dragons necessarily, he would stlil want to investigate that whole "super-powerful chosen one" thing. It just doesn't make sense to blow it off.

Similarly, in Oblivion, I hated the apparent urgency of the main quest. Uh oh, emperor gets murdered, demons are invading, you've GOT to get this necklace to Weynon Priory or we're all screwed. It doesn't then make sense that my character would spend a few months picking flowers, learning about alchemy, raiding ruins, practicing archery, or whatever, before heading to Weynon.

Also, it made no sense that the blades guarding the emperor were so quick to take your word on what happened when they had their backs turned. "Oh yea, that guy killed the emperor, not me, and the emperor told me that I was the chosen one and I have to take this invaluable relic to this dude (but not after I become the archmage of the mages guild, thieves guild, etc)."

Bottom line, if Bathesda worked on their storytelling, then combined it with the worlds they're so good at creating, they'd have the greatest RPG of all time on their hands. They could even go back and literally re-use the Morrowind world, update it with the new graphics and whatnot, and then spend the rest of the time on dialogue, story, mechanics, etc., and it'd be an amazing game that I'd pay $60 for.

No, no no.

Skyrim is a fantastic game. I'm trying to give constructive criticism so that they can make the next one even better

Your answer to the perceived problem that a LOT of fans have with the game is "ignore it." You're literally saying, just ignore it. If their fans continue to tell everyone to just ignore the shortcomings in the games, the shortcomings will remain in them in the future.

Bathesda is so close to making the best RPG of all time. Help them get there. It's a big job, and it's hard to create something perfect without outside input. If you've ever worked on a large, time consuming project, you know that outside feedback from people with fresh eyes is absolutely critical

. That's why they read these forums.

I would love the series to return to a sandbox game like Daggerfall. Sure there is an over-lying main story, but that was hardly what you spent much time on in the game. Dozens of different guilds to join and actually work to rise in rank.

They need to just build the world and let us play in it. The series has become too main quest oriented, with the player needing to become some all powerful savior figure. Just build a dynamic and fluid world that the player can adventure in and manipulate and actually see changes to the world based on their choices and actions.

I would be just fine if the next game didn't even have a main story quest. Just give me a dynamic world to interact with and see what develops from my choices.

Yeah indeed I am tired of saving the world...
The witcher 2 is what you people should try, you hunt down a personal goal and you can either help or whatever on your way. Dont get me wrong, skyrim is still a way better and more advanced game in many aspects (story just 'bit less"

*edit* you can even decide what to do with your antagonist.
I dont see myself wanting to become friends with alduin though, he will just enslave you and make you do the cleaning arround the den

I should have said, "your character" doesn't really want to save the world. I don't find the offered "reason" compelling. Basically, all of the sudden you're some super powerful dragon soul-eating chosen one, and some old dudes you've never heard of (because you're an Argonian, or Khaajit, or Bosmer or whatever) yelled at you to come up to their house on some big mountain.

You are the prophesied one in Morrowind and Oblivion as well. That is the standard gimick for the TES series because like the name suggests it is always the story of the prophesies of the Elder Scrolls.

Yes, exactly. Well said.

You don't have to be the head of every guild. Just be the head of one of them.


Yes, ignore the MQ in this game. It is one of the few games where you can ignore the MQ and still have a game to play. Of course, the Factions all have their desires to be fixed too.

Indifferent to the saving the world thing, although i would like it if there was an evil option or something. still, i suppose that's fable's turf.

Totally agree to the point of not having enough recognition; after completing questlines and such, its almost like nothing happened at all. Most people treat you the same, children are still arrogant, Nazeem's still an [censored], etc.

I think it's a fair comparison. BGII came out in 2000. At the time, it was extremely sandboxy. If you will recall, after getting out of the dungeon and meeting up with Gaelen Bayle, you are required to raise a $20,000 in order to requisition the help of the Shadow Thieves in tracking down Jon. Even if you'd played the game many times before, $20,000 was a good amount of cash to raise (unless you used at least one exploit I can think of - though it was patched over). Then, the world opened up and you could visit the various parts of the city, each of which had a LOT of very intricate, compelling quest lines that sent you to various other parts of the city, and other cities throughout Amn.

You had a compelling reason to explore, and it wasn't AS ridiculous to do so since there wasn't some cliche bad-dude getting ready to dominate the world.

I really hopaed that you could kill every single character in the game after completing the main quest, to be the only living person left in skyrim, too bad you can't...
this is the only thing i miss from the gothic series

The "without consequence" is the problem.

As far as Skyrim stories go, I found the civil war to be of interest to me. I think I would've preferred if that was the main quest or if the dragons return did have something to do with the Thalmor and the civil war.

All it does is take more time so they really should have went with...

Dialog options;

Good
Semi-good
Neutral
Semi-evil
Evil

At the most and

Good
Neutral
Evil

At the least.

Cause and Effect
Action and Reaction
Ripple Effect

All things that should be thought of when designing a story that has player decision.

I am.
And Alduin being the most cliché antagonist in my recent memory doesn't help either. He has literally 3 lines of dialogue (other than summoning other dragons, and shouting) in the game, that being ranting about your character unable to speak the dragon language.
We don't even get to know why he wants to eat the world.

Oh and if you do kill several named, and a [censored]load of unnamed dragons and finish the main quest what do you get? Nothing, no one seems to care.
(Same with the guild questlines. My character has finished the Thieves Guild, but they are still calling him Brynjolf's new protegé, etc.)


I really like this game, but things like this make me think I'm playing a hack&slash and not an RPG.

Good point. Yeah, even alot of "cliche" JRPGs start off small, with your main character heading off on some important, but relatively minor task. The discovery of the World Ending Threat? comes out later.


Does that game have any kind of overarching "main goal", or is it just "screw around in war torn country until you're bored"? I certainly like just wandering around and exploring in the Beth games I've played, but I always play the MQ on my first character - if I wasn't interested in the Main Story, I wouldn't have bothered with the games in the first place.


The TES series (at least up til now) has a hard time avoiding the Chosen One/Save The World thing, what with those Elder Scrolls all filled with prophesies about threats to the world.

Yea, but YOU don't have to be the one the Elder Scroll foretold or whatever. The conflict can be going on as a backdrop - as a part of the actual setting of the world. In Oblivion, for example, if all that stuff was going on while you were doing your thing, the MQ could have been something like a specific Daedric prince was tasked with the job of hunting you down specifically and killing you or trapping your soul in some infernal hellscape type scenario because you played a small role in the overall crisis - bringing the amulet to Weynon Priory (whereafter the NPC's take it from there as far as saving the world is concerned.

Then, instead of saving the world - you're really just another mage, knight, random dude, whatever, walking around the world - only you're being hunted by this daedra. Then, as your story unfolds, the events of the actual MQ would be unfolding, so that story would have an affect on your story but you wouldn't be saving the world, so when someone gives you [censored] for bumping into them it would make sense. You're just some guy no one cares about.

This would allow for exploration, and it would be more personally compelling because there's this demon dude trying to kill you. So, you can investigate and try to track him down before he tracks you down, or you can just explore, and be looking over your shoulder.

Being the head of every guild is silly. Rising to some other form of prominence, or being able to be the guild master in one would be more ideal. Also, I have to say, so far none of the quests made me [censored] my pants in the way that the theft of the elder scroll did in Oblivion. But there's still lots to do, so I won't pass judgement yet.

Anyway, back on topic, yeah, you should at least be good at the thing you are the guildleader of.

I guess this comes back to the part where I don't mind saving the world. To me, little of what you said there sounds very compelling. Why wouldn't you want to be the center of the story? (I read Lord of the Rings to see what the Heroes of the story do. I really don't think I'd read a related side book centered on the parallel experiences of Random Soldier of the Rohirrim #43 during the same time period. Yes, he participated in the battle at Helm's Deep, and then got dragged over to Gondor for the big fight, but for most of The Story, he's just hanging around Rohan, doing guard duty and going on patrols.)


(Kind of similarly, I have no idea why anyone plays The Sims, let alone enough to make it a huge series. I tried the first game once. I had to keep my house clean, make sure to stay fed/clean/rested, get to work on time and maintain my job, and try to save up money to buy a TV/computer/etc. Yeesh, I have to do all that crap in real life, why the heck would I spend my gaming/entertainment/escapist time doing the exact same stuff I have to struggle through IRL? I'm utterly baffled why those games are popular.)