So I managed to get through the entire College of Winterhold questline and become Arch-Mage having only cast one spell.

1) I advanced the main quest to the point where I was looking for an Elder Scroll. Used a Shout to gain admittance to the College (I used Make Ethereal, but presumably any shout other than Whirlwind Sprint would work, and that one might even do it too)
2) Used Spell Breaker in place of a Ward spell in the quest where you are asked to demonstrate a Ward spell.
3) Used Fire Breath in place of a traditional spell in Saarthal, to break down the barrier. Presumably other Shouts might work, such as Unrelenting Force.
4) Tried to use Frost Breath in Mzulft. Failed to get the proper alignment, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's impossible.
5) Used Fire Breath and Frost Breath in Labyrinthian where a fire or frost spell was called for (the two doors with the spirits).

Combat was done with dual-weilding swords & wearing light armor - a fact which rather trivialized Labyrinthian which is set up to stymie spellcasters. So in conclusion, this can be done with only a few shouts. You will have Unrelenting Force and Fire Breath already, so you really only need to seek out Frost Breath and pick up Spell Breaker.

If they made it that they could only join a faction based on certain skills, such as they did in Morrowind (But Morrowind had atributes as well) and then require to advance through the ranks, you would certain skills at certain levels, the community would flip

Shouting is a form of magic. It's ancient magic but by definition still magic. Or do you think breathing fire and calling down lightning is normal?

Okay. What's your point?

You can't guess it?
Seems pretty obvious...

No, it's not obvious.

Yeah, it is obvious.

It's a bit odd that you can be the lead person of an institution based on magic without using traditional magic. It's like being lead of the Thieves Guild without stealing anything or the Imperial Legion without lifting a sword.

I did the same. Just like the OP, I found Mzulft impossible without using spells just for that part because the shouts were overpowered.

They were RPing a typical student.Went to college and didn't learn a damn thing

Ever heard of a political appointment?

If people pursue something that breaks their own immersion, why is anyone supposed to care? I love all the threads wishing there was less player freedom. To Oblivion with that.

I get your point but your two examples are invalid. A great strategist could lead the legion without ever raising a weapon because his weapon is his mind and his control of troops.

Likewise the leader of the thieves doesnt need to be able to steal himself if he has other people to steal for him.


But i agree with the topic at hand that leader of the mages SHOULD at least know how to cast magic, whether he uses it or not is unimportant


EDIT:

I guess my point is, to lead you dont have to be skilled, you just have to be able to inspire others to follow you

Something else to consider.

Enrollment seems rather light at the college.Having a celebrity as Arch Mage may boost interest in attending.

"COME ONE COME ALL! LEARN FROM THE MAN WITH INVINCIBLE KNEES!"

You can also go too far with player freedom. Especially when it crosses the line into the realm of illogical gameplay experience.

The game developer's job is to make the game balanced and challenging. Becoming very strong is fine, but able to become godlike in 5 or 10 levels is simply bad game design.

"Being able to" doesn't mean you HAVE to. Skyrim gives you the power to be godlike if thats what you like but it never forces you to. if you think you are too strong then dont spend perks on things that make you stronger. and definatly dont enchant your gear so you have unlimited magicka


Ergo: Player choice

I couldn't possibly respectfully disagree with you more. Your teachers shouldn't give you any further quests unless he sees you as a worthy mage to take up such tasks. This would make for a perfect opportunity for you to continue the mages guild's other quests, thus extending the time played as a mere apprentice.

No, you're wrong. Bad design is bad design. If I for example want to roleplay the best crafter in the land I expect it to be a valid gameplay type. Instead, what you get in Skyrim is horrible overpoweredness which removes ANY kind of challenge in the whole game. I was expecting the crafting skills to augment my abilities, so I can have fun slaying my foes with my own forged blade. What you see now it people telling others on the forum that they should stay away from these crafting skills because it isn't any fun.

You call that balance? I call you a fan who's so in love with the game that he can't see the flaws anymore. To each his own I guess.

^A simply solution? Create enemies designed for a 100 level cap. That's right. Really difficult enemies with static stats designed to be taken down by characters stronger than normal. They would be very rare, or if in the overworld the player could actually flee from a battle (s)he can't win. Skyrim does leveling enemies well in my opinion, but that's aside the point.

I do see the flaws but i still love the game.

I challenge you to make a character and ONLY apply perks in the crafting skills, ie smithing, enchanting and alchemy. At high levels yes you will be over powered, but its an overpowered you have earnt through long hard determination.

Anyways i dont usually get into debates because i'm happy to let people have their own opinions, i just wanted to add my two cents.


EDIT: and besides, we kinda detracted from my original point. Skyrim gives players choices, thats all i was saying. If you want to say that those choices are delivered poorly then thats fine i'll accept that

you actually don't have to use any form of magic at the start. You can persuade the woman to let you in through speech.

but yeah...its pretty stupid. If they had made the opening set of questions geared less towards becoming a good mage and instead towards assisting the college get back on its feet, then I could understand.

The quests are clearly designed to cater to mage characters. If you pursue something that breaks your own immersion, that's bad roleplaying on part of the player. Don't come on the forum complaining about it.

My main has done that, I I am most happy with the results. I await playing the expansions that will come in the years to come with my godlike gear. I like how they give us the option to create such items. If we want to be strong, we can. If we don't, we can. The biggest thing that I believe damages the game's reputation in Skyrim is the fast traveling system. It takes away from the game's replayability and I'm digressing yet again.

You say "clearly" designed to cater to mage characters, yet no evidence is presented. In fact the opposite is more plausible because of what the OP said. You don't need to be a mage at all to do the quests. Where did you get the "clearly" from?

Also, you didn't respond to my other example. Am I to assume that you're backing off from your earlier stance? My question to you Celan is simple:

Do you think everything is up to the players themselves and the game developer holds no responsibility whatsoever for the balance of the game?

I don't see it, honestly you only really need magic 4 or 5 times throughout the quest line, and even then only ever basic spells. At the very least their should be some kind of requirements to "graduating", not to mention becoming the head of it all. Plus does it make sense that the actual college mages/members simply accept the appointment of a brand new student to the position of Arch mage, and this because some guy who isn't even a member of the college said so?

The rewards are all powerful magic items, and the only reason you go to Saarthal is because you're supposedly wanting to learn magic.

This game rewards roleplaying. If you do the college quest line as a mage, you end up with powerful equipment, you get radiant quests that make you feel like you're really representing the college, and you only get all the radiant quests if you're at advanced levels in magic schools. So, get it? This is a game that gives the most possible freedom for roleplaying, but rewards you for logically roleplaying a well built character. Powergamers and completionists, go find some stupid MMO to grind at, and leave the rarest of gems- an actual RPG- to the people who can appreciate it. I don't want to hear about your problems.

yeah cause it would pretty much shut you out of way too many quests, complexity is fine, but its more fun for me when i get to decide who i'm gonna help or join...you do have to do some minor initial quests etc to join a group but making it too difficult doesn't have any upsides, the reason i play bethesda games is they don't make their games frustrating and make it feel like getting teeth pulled in order to play the game...thats old thinking in games, bethesda games are complex but not in ways that make the games frustrating to play....everyone doesn't want to feel like in order to just play the game they need to be jumping through hoops the entire time...so i think its fine just how it is with the guilds...i'm head of the dark brotherhood, i'm arch mage, i'm thane of markarth and whiterun and lets see, i'm in the thieves guild and am neutral in the civil war..so if it was made too hard to join guilds i would be shut out and forced to only join a guild based on my stats instead of what i really wanted to do.