Are women equally represented in Skyrim? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:47 pm

Tomb Raider

Yes because the protagonist is a female, same goes for Bloodrayne. I am talking about games like Mass Effect, TES and others where you have a choice. Yet they are all represented in trailers and videos as a male always. Your answer I could turn and say HALO because the only protagonist is a male. Sick of seeing Captain Sheppard represented as an unshaven bum.....lol

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:46 am

I'm 64, and my wife would tell you that I will/can defend a woman's right to be at the forefront just like a man. I worked for the federal government for 40 years, and went to a lot of training over the years that supports equal rights for all - and I supervised women for at least 30 of those years.

However, I think at times like this, we should remember this is a game, not real life - so I can't find fault with Bethesda with what they did or didn't do to support women.

And although you're entitled to your opinion, threads like these really serve no purpose - my opinion - IN A GAME SETTING; after all, games are someone's explanation how they see things in an "other-worldly setting." And that interpretation is going to clash with many people's beliefs.

Now, we go to real life and I'll support you 110%.

E

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:34 am

I'm a female and I don't care if the dragon language is "gender inclusive" or not. Because in proper English and all Germanic languages, man/ men is a representative word, and no amount of politicking is going to change that, and it doesn't need to. If you can't hold that concept in your mind without getting offended, then something is wrong with your mindset- not with the language.

All we need is for the dragons to start saying "when the dovahkiin comes, he/she will save Skyrim with the power of his/her thu'um..." And that would be incredibly lame.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:13 am

Considering all the warrior-women you meet, how most housecarls are women, compared to real life? Yes, women are well-represented in Skyrim.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:07 pm

. . . political correctness should not revise history. Facts should.

^ Win.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:10 pm

Aside from armor that's a little too generous on the chest for women, I'm not seeing much sixism in this game. Women and men are represented in all facets of Nordic society from war to religion.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:41 pm

It probably should be changed to "She" because if I'm not mistaken, the original dragonborn was actually St. Alessia?

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:54 pm

Women are so well represented in the Elder Scrolls there is no or little difference in fighting skills from men, continueing a genre wide myth of the female as physical equal of the male.

Many women are in command.

And now the writer wants the lyrics changed of a song?

Here's a newsflash, there are no women in professional football. They are not there because they are not large or strong enough or fast enough to be there. Yet in Skyrim often the most powerful fighters are women.

Would I change this? If it makes someone feel good about themselves, that's fine with me. There isn't an alternative because if one wanted to play a 'realistic' woman hero she would either be a mage or cooking food. She might get away with being an elfish bow-person but would still suffer (and die) in melee. That's not much leeway so we have made the sixes equal. It's a game. The real trouble comes in our real world when we place people in positions that cannot by genes or six do as well. Games reflect the current PC of our times. But it's a game.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:19 am

I know "Man" embodies all humans, however "Men" and "Son" are really gender specific. You can't immiedatly tell that the Dragonborn song is just about a man not a woman because if you don't know the language ((I still don't and I have to use my book or UESP for translation)) you wouldn't know it. However the Dragonborn song is way more acceptable than just singing "These Men of the North" Because I can easily add "There is no women in Skyrim or on video games"

Men is the same. It encomposes everyone. Men and Women. Sons is used to refer to all decent ants of "the snow".

You are just paranoid and over reacting.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:15 pm

Without letting Political Correctness determine a games content, a couple things to keep in mind. Bethesda games have always had strong female characters. Not in the sense of being able to kick butt, though they can do that, but in the sense of a person who is strong and capable. Also, being that there are no Gender Differences other than appearance and some dialog snippets, Female and Male characters are equally capable of being successful at the game.

As for the song, it is a historical ditty and it's origins are lost in the sands of time. Well, maybe not that far back, but the world was less cosmopolitan back then, so women were given a secondary role in the histories. Plus, the Dragonborn was a man, so it makes sense to call him that in the song.

I am not flaming you, but political correctness should not revise history. Facts should.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:08 am

And you registered to post this? Troll.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:32 am

I actually thought otherwise in the sense that I thought Skyrim Folk didn't have Gender differences in culture, you see Male and Female rulers, adventurers, smiths (Alvor raising his daugther to be a smith?) a little assassin Girl? Legates? not once in the game have I seen Women being treated in the undertow to be honest.

Yeah, I'm under that impression too.

OP: I see your point about the song, but I think they made it that way for convinience. An unknown hero of the future that can be of either gender is most likely presented as neutral as possible, but with a nudge towards male.
As for the Dragon language: It might be a lore reason for it. They may have decided that dragons aren't particulary adept at seperating male and female humanoids and therefor refer to them as the same. Or it might be coincidal, as they might not have required the words and never noticed that they weren't there.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:10 pm

A guy who made a fan video being slightly rude does not equate to Skyrim being sixist or representing a gender unequally in any way.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:19 pm

Men is the same. It encomposes everyone. Men and Women. Sons is used to refer to all decent ants of "the snow".

You are just paranoid and over reacting.

And in the true spirit of equanimity, since 'Men' has meant both genders for maybe 50,000 years (or as long as the written word anyway), let's have 'Women' encompass both genders for the next 50,000 years. It would only be fair and prove that men were not paranoid and overreacting to having that change.

:tes:

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:10 pm

I honestly think people try far too hard to see sixism and racism in games.

It is a game that takes a lot of its cues from Norse mythology which is largely male based.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:54 am

Actually, literature dropped 'man' for "man'kind a couple of decades ago. It's not used much any longer, but has taken a neutral gender or plural in it's place. The language doesn't really have a neuter like say, German. The phrase has fallen into disuse.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:33 am

Unokitsune, I don't think this is a battle worth fighting. "Gender neutralization" is a concept that chooses to take offense, on the whole, in my opinion. It is the idea that "Men of the North", means "Males of the North only may participate. Take a powder, females, we don't need your participation, raise the kids and cook dinner", instead of meaning, simply "Men (meaning the race of Man) of the North".

In other words, you're looking to wave a banner and fight the good fight, whether or not anyone has intended to offend, because you're choosing an interpretation that supports your sense of being offended. I do not support the culture of victimhood.

In my opinion, it is an issue that needs attention only if the context of the thing is degrading somehow to women, and I do not see that. Omission of 'specific equal time' is a laughable excuse to choose to take offense, in my opinion. I see nothing in the context that supports misogyny.

I hope you understand that this is not an attack or a derogatory series of comments. It is my opinion, based on considered thought about the issue.

The thread really should have ended here. Great post.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:40 am

Ever heard of mankind?

Yes and it is something progressives and feminists take issue with. Most societies today are still sadly male-dominated and our language, vocabulary and the way it's used could use some equilibrium. We've come a long way since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_woman_question but clearly we've not come all that far.

It's common so I guess live with it.

Yeah and so is domestic abuse and [censored]. Should we just "live with" that too?

All that said, I personally think that it is fine in a historical context the same way that I think Huckleberry Fin being edited is a horrible shame.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:49 am

Should our species be renamed Hupeople?
This is pushing it a little.

The guy wanted his song to have a certain vibe, warrior tradition blah blah blah.
You can't just erase the feelings evoked by ancient cultural memes for the sake of being pc!

The substitute lyrics suggested sound forced, sound designed to be politically correct (because... THEY ARE!)
The song loses that all important sense of authenticity.

On a sidenote the game itself is faultless in it's treatment of women imo, I mean a female imperial captain orders your execution 5 minutes after you start playing.

I think women are doing pretty well in the equality stakes in TES.
Better than women in a lot of cultures in todays society irl actually.

...and those women are actually real!
I'd rather save my concern for them tbh.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:36 pm

Perhaps there was an error in translating the Draconic...

The Dragon's language has a single word for "he" and "she", and probably the one who translated the Draconic text to Tamrielic,made a mistake.
Dragons have no genders,and when dragons where born there where no mortals so they would never need a word to indifferate one gender from another because there was no genders.
Don't forget it's a Draconic Song.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:11 am

No, because It's racist. I mean, sixist. Damn Song of Ice and Fire. Or was It Skyrim? Women in the game are not accurately portrayed, I want someone on her period!

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:21 pm

I think women are very well represented in Skyrim, both as warriors and as works-ladies, and also as Nobel people as well. While it's true that guy over-reacted to your suggestion, he probably did not expect criticism after such a 99% positive reaction to his video. Also, maybe he sang the song about his character, who would probably be a male(seeing as the singer is a male) so it would make sense if the song was about a male Dragonborn. As for the Sons of Skyrim part, well it sons of Skyrim has a better ring to it than Daughters of Skyrim, as Skyrim and son both start with the Letter "S" making it sound more fluid.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:30 am

Lots of women in Skyrim fighting and kicking butt with their women-shaped armor. It's very equal.

I was just thinking this thought exactly. In fact, I am currently playing my first play through with a female character. I have no idea what the OP is even talking about. Over a few song lyrics. Gimme a break. There are plenty of female characters(strong ones at that) in Bethesda Games. Whether it is a hero or heroine is up to the player. I think they make it neutral enough that you can play whoever you want to play. I also had a female character in both FO3 and FONV...

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:21 am

the only thing i could even see as bethesda not representing women properly is in character creation no matter how high you put the weight bar a female character will always look like all it would take to blow them over is a stiff breeze.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:26 am

Should our species be renamed Hupeople?
This is pushing it a little.

Is it? Everything we experience in our lives is part of some arbitrarily-ascribed value system we've been indoctrinated into. Why not come up with new words? I'm not a hard-line feminist but I AM a feminist. I'm not saying this is the biggest issue we have to fight, but awareness and social responsibility is something people should hold at the highest value.