Suppose I'm not using a shield. And I'm not a Breton. What's the closest I can get?



So I dont have to increase Magicka whatsoever via level up. I'm playing an assassin type, and was curious what the best protection I could get was, without drastically altering the build I already had.

I didn't see a description in either the old or new OP, but what exactly is the Ancient Knowledge perk bug? And is it affecting only armors, or also weapons?


For example on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1289727-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-4/page__view__findpost__p__19516089, he says that with 0 points in Agile Defender, he is able to get Dragonscale Armor to 546 (no shield) and 676 (with shield).

I'm using the same techniques to craft my armors (100 skill in the 3 crafts, with all the relevant perks in those 3 crafts, wearing +29% x4 smithing gear and +130% smithing potion) and my end results for Dragonscale Armor are 440 (no shield) and 545 (with shield), which is like more than a hundred points less than Domilasa's numbers. (This is also with 0 points in Agile Defender).

Did I mess up when crafting the gear? Or is the discrepancy explained by having Ancient Knowledge, which I think is the only thing different between our setups to my knowledge?

you dont need all the elemetal resistences capped mate. thats a waste of entchant slots if you already have magic resist capped you are already nearly immune to all forms of magic. even on master ancient dragons or master wizards will barely hurt you with this. used this by myself on my last playtrough.

if you are not a breton you are forced to use the lords stone or use both jewerely slots for magic resist +23. i actually like the steed stone better because BOTH effects help you. +100 carry and no armor penalty. with lords stone you only get +25% resist. the 50 armor rating is mostly useless at the end because of the armor cap.

the atronach stone is either bugged or annoying as hell if you want to cast spells. since it absorbs ANYTHING that is cast on yourself so it prevents summons/heals and even POTION effects most of the time which is not very good thing at all. if you dont care much about magic you can use the atronach combo for insane magic defense. but imo i like to have a bit of magic even on my warrior type and the potion absorbtion is annoying as hell even for melee types. i think its a bug that it absorbs "friendly" spell effects aswell.

its not a perk its a permanet buff you gain from a quest.
the buff SEEMS to be bugged but could aswell be just a typo we dont know this yet for sure.
currently the buff grants you a 25% bonus on ALL armor you find in the game. this buff does not require having a full set of heavy or light only. once you get it during the quest all armor values on any item will raise by 25% forever. also it says that smithing levels 15% faster but in reality it increases your smithing upgrades by 15% so it effects weapons aswell. a deadric sword with this buff will have 550 base dmg at the end. without the buff its 518 dmg.

armor value is not relevant at all since you upgrade your armor via smithing you reach the cap anyway if you use light armor you just need to spend maybe 1 perk point more.


i for myself think the buff is working as itended and its just a typo. because this makes way more sense for a permanent buff than something that would get useless with time. and 25% more armor is not much more than a single perk point so its power is not that high.

Thanks for the clarification. So Domilasa says he gets Dragonscale at 546 (no shield) and I'm at 440 (no shield), so 546/440 = 1.2409. So I guess this is the 25% at work? Please correct me if I'm mistaken. (My slight hesitance stems from the fact that the number is more like 24% than 25%.....why the imprecision, when there's no rounding up at work?)

I've got a couple more questions:


1) EDIT: Nevermind, you answered my question as I was typing this post.


2) Do NPC followers have perks? For example, I look up my follower, Aela the Huntress with getavinfo, and see that she actually has 100 skill in Light Armor. But does that mean she has relevant perks in Agile Defender and such? The reason I ask is because, let's say I give my Dragonscale Armor set + Shield to Aela (again, 545 armor total). That actually doesn't hit the cap of 567. If she doesn't have any points in Agile Defender, does that pretty much mean I have to waste an enchant slot with Fortify Light Armor for her (or give her a Heavy Armor set that naturally hits the armor cap)?

3) Is the armor cap rating of 576 regardless of whether or not you're using a shield? From threads #1-4, it seemed as if there was some murmurings that the cap without shield was 672, but I never really got any confirmation if this 672 number was real or just part of outdated theorycrafting. I'm looking at http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Armor and the number "672" doesn't actually come up at all.

If you're not a breton and you're not using a shield I wouldn't even bother with Elemental Resist, you've just lost three enchatment slots.

You can find my original armor numbers without the Ancient Knowledge perk here;
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1279078-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-3/page__view__findpost__p__19443428

The extra damage on the swords is coming from the Ancient Knowledge perk. 15% boost to smithing means my upgrades are higher than in his OP.

I'm doubtful that they would program in followers having perks, but I can do some tests in game with different followers and get some concrete numbers.

The ancient Knowledge perk gives +15% to smithing and +25% to base armor. So with full Daedric I believe you get about +25 armor.

Melee or Archer Type? I played through the game both as Archer and DW. Either way you'll be basically one-shotting any opponent besides Dragons - and those mainly not due to the fact they're flying. Shock Resistance e.g. is rather pointless since caster Mobs will be dead in one hit. So if I was you I would just go for fire and frost. I'm not sure about the exact Stealth mechanics - i.e. if there is a cap, so I enchanted Stealth on any item.

Keep in mind that you can swap equipment in fight.

You could go for

Illusion+x on Helm
Illusion+x on Armor
None on Gloves, since you'll most likely be wearing the shrouded Gloves
Sneak+Muffle on Boots with an alternative Resistance Gear consisting of Dual Magic Resistance (totaling 52%)
Sneak+Illusion on Amu with an alternative Gear consisting of Fire+Frost
Sneak+Illusion on Ring with alternative Gear consisting of Fire+Frost

Finising Mara Quest and Activating Lord stone should cap you on Magic Resistance and Fire + Frost on Dragon Fights while leaving you with maximum Sneak+Backstab Damage and free Illusion Spells for the Rest of the game.

Ah I have been referencing Dragonscale, which according to your old post was at 440 (no shield) and 545 (with shield), which matches my numbers exactly. Great!

EDIT: I think we have like 3 of us simultaneously typing up posts and editing as we speak, so we're missing out on some info. I put a question #3 on my previous post that maybe you could clarfiy for me. ^^

Shield has no effect on the cap, I believe 672 was kind of a test number that someone hit and it just kind of stuck around for a while.

Doh, I referenced Daedric then went back and edited it to reference Dragonplate. I'm so bad.

Yeah, I tend to mistype or misread a lot when making my posts so I usually have to go back really quick and edit things and hope no one notices

LOL yeah, thanks Domilasa. BTW, do you have an old post with the base weapons (swords?) without Ancient Knowledge as well?

I do not, but I can throw one together.

That's what they all say until they had a breakthrough with their freeze gun/super soldier serum/killer sat/laser mounted bear army.

Anyway scale size does affect damage directly. Setting 0.5 on my character directly cuts damage by half. Attempting to boost Alduin's power by setscale 2.0 unforturately bugged his flight out.

For mages, I found that the restoration master spell Guardian Circle triggers spell absorption while standing in it, providing you endless magicka while the spell is in effect. It doesn't really make up for spell absorption messing your summons and is not useful if you have zero cost spells, but if your particular playstyle demands no having both, this piece of information might be useful. Besides, you have to try it atleast once to see how cool it is in conjunction with lightning storm.

Since Followers are surely interesting in Terms of minmaxing here some info I found out:

- It seems that the only followers that level are the ones from the Dark Brotherhood questline
- It seems that followers have a minimum level even when hired at level one. For Lydia it seems to be Level 6.
- I am not sure wether the Level of the Follower is applied when entering their zone for the first time or hiring them but the Winterhold mages were definitely not up to my level even though I visited Winterhold College for the first time when I hit level 50.
- Level 50 followers will have their Main Skills on 100. On a different Thread I read that when given Dragon Scale armor and Dragon Plate armor some followers would equip Dragon Scale. Since they will equip the armor with the highest Armor Value this indicates that this particular follower had Light Armor Perks.
- They have unlimited ammo for their ranged weapon but will pick up Arrows found on dead mobs occasionally. So far I can not confirm that they will have unlimited ammo for a ranged weapon you give them. I gave Lydia a Bow and no ammo and she was using it but I am not sure wether she picked up ammo on the way. There is a bug though: Followers will sometimes switch back to their default bow even if they have a better one plus arrows in their inventory.
- Casters will use ranged weapons when they run out of mana. They will use melee weapons if out of mana and engaged in a melee situation.
- Soul Tap Enchantments (or Fiery Souls) will work on Followers, so you could give them empty soul gems. Careful though since it can happen that they will fill Grand Soul Gems with petty souls once the lower Gems are filled.
- Weapon Enchants will deplete, if used by followers
- The have a Mana/Stamina management and will use Healing/Mana/Stamina Potions if given to them. Not sure about other Potions though.
- Casters seem not to learn new spells. Marcurio would use only the Adept spells even when first met and hired at Level 50 - and his health clearly indicating a high Level (playing on 360 though I can't check)
- Unsure about Spell Tomes yet. I saw Marcurio using Scrolls but not Tomes to learn new spells yet - I might have to test that.
- I read that casters will use staves in some situations but so far I can't confirm. Marcurio equips sword and shield when I draw my weapon though he has three rather Strong Staves in his inventory.
- They will equip the highest Damage/Armor Item on respective slots and ignore bonuses. This is extremely annoying since caster followers will sometimes not equip better robes.
- If you dismiss and re-hire a follower he will get a new (invisible) default gear. That means depending on the weight of his default gear his carrying capacity will suffer drasticly when releasing and re-hiring him. On a side note though: Even if a follower is at carrying capacity you can command him to pick up an item and he will do so.

General: If you have access to good equipment i.E. use the crafting loop any melee followers will become extremely strong whereas casters will be very, very weak in late game. I had Vorstag just geared in max Armor Class plus sword with Absorb Health and Absorb Stamina and he killed two Giants in a very short time on Master. Not sure though if he used potions. Marcurio on the other hand took forever to bring one Giant to ~75% before he had to run, kite and eventually get killed.

Quick update for the OP while I was making a set of gear for my non Ancient Knowledge save. One step less so saves four enchants.

Does anybody have any advice on where to buy gear with Muffle & Resist Poison enchants, to disenchant and learn? I have learned every single other enchant in the game, after refreshing Radiant Raiments and a blacksmith for like an hour straight, but I haven't seen those last 2 come up. I'm almost beginning to think they show up in rare vendors like the Khajit caravan? (if so, is there a reliable way to meet the caravan so I can do the 48 hour fast-forward without them leaving me behind?)

I found muffle in Whiterun - it just seems to be very rare and might require a minimum level to show up. Playing with a Level 1 Char at the moment and so far found neither of the absorbs nor banish but I'll keep you posted on that. Muffle was on some dwarven boots - so it seems it has nothing to do with armor class or armor Level.

Yeah I'm like level 79 right now, LOL. Hmm, so Muffle was off one of the smiths, or another type of store (i.e. Belethor's General Goods or court mage in Dragonreach; sorry I don't remember off the top of my head if either sell boots)? The resist poison stuff seems incredibly rare. In Radiant Raiment I managed to find a variety of necklaces for all the various resist X enchants and even the best-in-game vendor items (Necklace of Disease Immunity/Firewalker/Warmth/Grounding/Nullification) EXCEPT poison.

Yes. 100% sure it was off Adrianne Avenicci in Whiterun in front if the Warmaiden's shop.

have you found any armor full enchantable, etc. That looks like NIghtingale armor?

something like this does not exist mate sorry. the nightingale armor set is one of the only very few unique armors out there. exists only once.

but there is a mod as far as i know where you can craft your own unentchanted nightingale armor.

this is wrong mate : i loaded my old savegame file where i did not get this buff and did the quest to test something:

at this time is was already at 1475 armor with full deadric without shield. (with ALL heavy armor perks and smithing 130% etc. and lords stone active) after i got the buff the difference was HUGE. so its not base armor increase it works the same as the perk one where you have to wear a matching set for example.

after i got the buff i had 1727 armor rating. so its power increases the higher your total armor rating gets. its nearly over 250 additional armor with the buff (only counting the ARMOR bonuses) with the additional smithing bonues these numbers would have been higher again.

Hmm, I only did testing on a couple of pieces so it's possible that the numbers were too small to give a proper indication. I'll do some more testing with bigger numbers and see exactly what it effects.

Edit: My original testing for reference;
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1289727-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-4/page__view__findpost__p__19554461


Edit:

Armor skill doesn't effect it except for a minute amount which I believe is simply the effect of rounding, here's my numbers

Full Daedric armor

Skill - Armor = With perk (Percentage) (increase)
100 - 205 = 239 (16.5%) (34)
75 - 189 = 224 (18.5%) (35)
50 - 175 = 213 (21.7%) (38)
25 - 160 = 198 (32.7%) (38)
0 - 144 = 182 (26.3%) (38)

Deadric Chest only

100 - 69 = 81 (17.3%) (12)
0 - 49 = 62 (26.5%) (13)

Will test perks and smithing upgrades next.

Edit 2:

All armor perks effect the boost;

Full Daedric Set, 100 Armor skill

Perks - Armor = With perk (Percentage) (increase)
0/5 - 205 = 239 (16.5%) (34)
1/5 - 235 = 274 (16.5%) (39)
2/5 - 266 = 310 (16.5%) (44)
3/5 - 297 = 346 (16.4%) (49)
4/5 - 328 = 382 (16.4%) (54)
5/5 - 359 = 418 (16.4%) (59)
1/1 - 448 = 522 (16.5%) (74)
1/1 - 538 = 627 (16.5%) (89)

Edit 3;

Smithing boosts are adjusted by the perk,

Pre-improved Deadric armor

Unimproved - 205 = 239 (16.5%) (34)
Improved - 272 = 321 (18%) (49)

Edit 4;

Fully improved daedric set with 4x29% smithing gear, 130% potion and all armor perks

1597 = 1881 (17.7%) (284)

Then improved again after getting the perk;

1881 = 1980 (5.3%) (99)

Total Improvement;

1597 = 1980 (23.9%) (383)

Conclusion; For pure numbers, this perk is pretty amazing. Almost a 400 boost just from this perk. For Min/Maxers it's just as awesome, saving them at least one perk point when trying to hit the armor cap. There's really no reason not to get this perk ASAP.

NPCs will sometimes attempt to roll past traps. I have seen Mjoll do it quite a few times, and she is not a stealth-type character. I'm sure it is something they are scripted to do in certain situations and not an NPC version of the perk.

I can also confirm that Uthgerd does not have a Juggernaut perk, even at 100 skill. Silly NPC's, perks are for Players.

If I only intend on using light armor is it necessary to take smithing perks up to daedric in order to get these crazy bonuses or is that just for crafting daedric weapons?