Based on their racial powers and skills what races seems the

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:24 am

Yeah sorry for all the theorycrafting I'd say hands down if a pure racial war broke out Orc's would win in a straight up fight. And mainly its for the same reason why Mike Tyson was such a devastating boxer when he was in his prime. Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face. Orcs eat, sleep, and breath combat. Having a tactical advantage and using it are two different things. A LOT of boxers were 'tactically' superior to Mike Tyson in every way. Mike was slow, had a short reach, and was more brawler than boxer but once he hit someone that person did NOT want to get hit again. Fear and intimidation is a BIG factor on the battlefield. Orcs don't flinch in battle, they not only welcome the savagery they bath in it and use the blood of their enemies as their bath water.

And as someone who has had more than a few fights, I can not tell you how demoralizing it is to hit someone as hard as you can with everything got behind it and it do absolutely nothing to quell that person's desire and ability to cause you bodily harm. Seeing a wall of roaring, shouting, insane orcs charging at you after youv'e hit them with volleys of arrows and spells, bodies on fire or littered with arrows... knowing they should be wounded or dead but they are still running at you full speed, that deafening thundering stampede of armored hell only getting louder and closer at every second. You'd need balls the size of Tamriel to stand your ground. And since you are facing an army of races and not just the empire that uses them as the most lethal front line soldiers in existence... consider the fact that was only the first wave.

And then consider the fact that the Orc's Berserk ability is applied to ANY weapon. I personally play my Orc as an archer from day one because I love the idea of popping off my zerk and just being a freaking cannon every now and then. A battallion of Orc archers behind a strong Orc charge can great quite a large 'dead zone' on the battlefield. So yeah as one person mentioned above if the orcs are under the charge of one unified chief, the potential of carnage is unparalleled by any other race. Anything you put in front of them is just going to be a 'paper wall' they'll just rip through and after seeing the carnage not many are going to forsake their instincts of self-preservation and hold their post.

That said that is just in a straight up fight. Redguards are another one that can give the other a run for their money. Stamina is just not for attacking... its used in marching, running, evading... in a battle they can outlast most but in war that stamina means.... they can cover greater distances, maximize guerrilla tactics to wear down the opposition, use tactical retreats to bait units into an ambush more effectively. So that is not to be taken lightly.

Argonians are another. If they are near any body of water expect them to use it to their advantage. In a swamp... anyone fool hardy enough to engage them will find them to be quite outmatched. Even the pure offensive power of the orcs would be no match... you can't slay what you can't find. In the dark muddy water of the swamp where only danger and disease await under its murky depths, Argonians are right at home. Not sure if any naval battle would be theirs for the taking as their water breathing could only be fresh water but the ability to swim an entire unit up under a boat and then breech it's hull = automatic win.

Bosmer using the aid of animals would be quite formidable. Hawks carrying potions of strong poisons over head, packs of diseased rats biting enemies under foot, herds of bears charging to take out fortifications, using moles the burrow small tunnels into enemy encampments and then send poisonous snakes, more rats, or spiders through to do more damage. Using wolves the track and find hidden enemy stashes or camps. Ghosts are neat and all but nothing like having the entire animal kingdom as a potential resource.

Altmer are your master casters. Ghosts are nice but when you have a whole army casting wall spells... very little is going to get through to matter much. They pretty much don't need a front line. Just spells and archers. They can let the AoE hammer drop, and drop hard. Anything resistant to magic well... arrows will cover that. Of course a wave of charging bretons with shields would completely ruin their day lol.

Honestly in straight up battle. Orcs win. In war though, too many conditions and variables make up the advantages and objectives of every battle. Is the objective stationary like defending a camp or fortification? Then a strategic retreat will not aid in the objective of the battle. In a forest setting movement is king. Being able to move around trees while keeping your footing from sticks and vines? There is no one size fits all schematic for winning wars. War IS chaos. Anything can happen and anything will happen. No amount of theory crafting will ever give a definite answer cause variables can change in a blink of an eye.
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TASTY TRACY
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:52 am

In my opinion it would depend on the opponent. Bretons would beat the altmer, because of magic resistance (assuming both are wizards), but the altmer would beat ie. orcs (no resistances, just slow them with ice, make ice runes on chokepoints, forcing the melee orc to run through it etc). Bretons would probably lose to Nords, since they aren't as powerful wizards as altmer (less magicka, lore reasons) and nords can't be affected by cold, thus the slowing effects would be nullified. I could talk about the other races but you can surely figure it out, as we all know the internet communities are full of intelligent and resourceful people.
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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:44 am

What does that have to do with it? Are the Dunmer immune from taking pain? An orc under the effects of berserk will have a higher pain threshold.

I'll reinforce this with something that happened to me, in real life.

I was kick starting a motorbike, it was my second motorbike, and it was the first time I had decided to take it out. Not knowing the peculiarities of this particular bike, I managed to tear a rather sizable hole out of my foot. I went to kick start, it was cold so I put more force into it, unknowing that the kick start pedal had retracted by itself. My foot went straight through the jagged-edged foot rest. Tore through my biker shoe, and left a sizable hole in my foot.

I didn't feel a thing. I didn't even notice I had messed my foot up until my friend commented on the rather large pool of blood on the floor. I looked down and noticed the gaping hole in my shoe and foot.

Adrenaline, again, it's a marvelous thing.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:23 pm

Yeah sorry for all the theorycrafting I'd say hands down if a pure racial war broke out Orc's would win in a straight up fight. And mainly its for the same reason why Mike Tyson was such a devastating boxer when he was in his prime. Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face. Orcs eat, sleep, and breath combat. Having a tactical advantage and using it are two different things. A LOT of boxers were 'tactically' superior to Mike Tyson in every way. Mike was slow, had a short reach, and was more brawler than boxer but once he hit someone that person did NOT want to get hit again. Fear and intimidation is a BIG factor on the battlefield. Orcs don't flinch in battle, they not only welcome the savagery they bath in it and use the blood of their enemies as their bath water.

And as someone who has had more than a few fights, I can not tell you how demoralizing it is to hit someone as hard as you can with everything got behind it and it do absolutely nothing to quell that person's desire and ability to cause you bodily harm. Seeing a wall of roaring, shouting, insane orcs charging at you after youv'e hit them with volleys of arrows and spells, bodies on fire or littered with arrows... knowing they should be wounded or dead but they are still running at you full speed, that deafening thundering stampede of armored hell only getting louder and closer at every second. You'd need balls the size of Tamriel to stand your ground. And since you are facing an army of races and not just the empire that uses them as the most lethal front line soldiers in existence... consider the fact that was only the first wave.

And then consider the fact that the Orc's Berserk ability is applied to ANY weapon. I personally play my Orc as an archer from day one because I love the idea of popping off my zerk and just being a freaking cannon every now and then. A battallion of Orc archers behind a strong Orc charge can great quite a large 'dead zone' on the battlefield. So yeah as one person mentioned above if the orcs are under the charge of one unified chief, the potential of carnage is unparalleled by any other race. Anything you put in front of them is just going to be a 'paper wall' they'll just rip through and after seeing the carnage not many are going to forsake their instincts of self-preservation and hold their post.

That said that is just in a straight up fight. Redguards are another one that can give the other a run for their money. Stamina is just not for attacking... its used in marching, running, evading... in a battle they can outlast most but in war that stamina means.... they can cover greater distances, maximize guerrilla tactics to wear down the opposition, use tactical retreats to bait units into an ambush more effectively. So that is not to be taken lightly.

Argonians are another. If they are near any body of water expect them to use it to their advantage. In a swamp... anyone fool hardy enough to engage them will find them to be quite outmatched. Even the pure offensive power of the orcs would be no match... you can't slay what you can't find. In the dark muddy water of the swamp where only danger and disease await under its murky depths, Argonians are right at home. Not sure if any naval battle would be theirs for the taking as their water breathing could only be fresh water but the ability to swim an entire unit up under a boat and then breech it's hull = automatic win.

Bosmer using the aid of animals would be quite formidable. Hawks carrying potions of strong poisons over head, packs of diseased rats biting enemies under foot, herds of bears charging to take out fortifications, using moles the burrow small tunnels into enemy encampments and then send poisonous snakes, more rats, or spiders through to do more damage. Using wolves the track and find hidden enemy stashes or camps. Ghosts are neat and all but nothing like having the entire animal kingdom as a potential resource.

Altmer are your master casters. Ghosts are nice but when you have a whole army casting wall spells... very little is going to get through to matter much. They pretty much don't need a front line. Just spells and archers. They can let the AoE hammer drop, and drop hard. Anything resistant to magic well... arrows will cover that. Of course a wave of charging bretons with shields would completely ruin their day lol.

Honestly in straight up battle. Orcs win. In war though, too many conditions and variables make up the advantages and objectives of every battle. Is the objective stationary like defending a camp or fortification? Then a strategic retreat will not aid in the objective of the battle. In a forest setting movement is king. Being able to move around trees while keeping your footing from sticks and vines? There is no one size fits all schematic for winning wars. War IS chaos. Anything can happen and anything will happen. No amount of theory crafting will ever give a definite answer cause variables can change in a blink of an eye.

I'm fighting for orc, since the OP said it would be in a plain field. That's just what orcs are made for.
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michael flanigan
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:33 am

nothing in the game other than illusion spells could stop a berserkering orc. and i'm in my own world here talking about dunmer and orc deadra worshiping empire so........ i just wouldn't have them fight
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Carlitos Avila
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:50 am

I'll reinforce this with something that happened to me, in real life.

I was kick starting a motorbike, it was my second motorbike, and it was the first time I had decided to take it out. Not knowing the peculiarities of this particular bike, I managed to tear a rather sizable hole out of my foot. I went to kick start, it was cold so I put more force into it, unknowing that the kick start pedal had retracted by itself. My foot went straight through the jagged-edged foot rest. Tore through my biker shoe, and left a sizable hole in my foot.

I didn't feel a thing. I didn't even notice I had messed my foot up until my friend commented on the rather large pool of blood on the floor. I looked down and noticed the gaping hole in my shoe and foot.

Adrenaline, again, it's a marvelous thing.

Exactly. I broke both of the bones in my wrist in a motorbike wreck, and didn't realize it until I got back home. I picked the bike up and had to walk it back. I was so full of adrenaline, I could have ran with the bike, having one arm completely broken. I also got a boxer's fracture in my hand, and still finished the fight. To underestimate the effects of berserking is absurd.
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Jeff Tingler
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:16 pm

As Imperials, we use diplomacy to peacefully settle conflicts, and then establish civilized control over all parties involved so that they don't fall back into war and barbarism (looking at you, Nords).

(i.e. Voice of the Emperor, and then destroy their leaders).
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Cassie Boyle
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:51 pm

Orcs, that is all, Breton's are a close second.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:18 am

Seeing how brokenly overpowered Sneak is... Khajiit.

They can see in the dark without giving away there position. Their fur works as camouflage, and they kill the greatest armies in the world by sneaking in after night falls.
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quinnnn
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:55 am

Why is the OP assuming Orcs would have no battle strategy in place?
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Ludivine Dupuy
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Why is the OP assuming Orcs would have no battle strategy in place?

That was the question I kept asking, haha.
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Kit Marsden
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:48 am

Dunmer are far from the best....sorry if their your favorite race but it's the truth. If we were doing base attack the Altmer would have the highest anyway because they are the tallest.

But this is silly because this is a single player game......it's actually more then silly it's slightly stupid.
scale has been confirmed not to affect damage values.

outside of that, height =/= better attack.
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Solène We
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:26 am

Why is the OP assuming Orcs would have no battle strategy in place?

Because each and every Dunmer is an unstoppable god-king of magic, swordsmanship, archery, and tactics.
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:13 am

scale has been confirmed not to affect damage values.

outside of that, height =/= better attack.

Where was that confirmed? In the last thread the opposite was confirmed. If you scale up to 10 you do that much more damage.
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Amy Siebenhaar
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:38 am

There should definitely be a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoaR9PbvM0U video to this effect!!
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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:20 pm

There should definitely be a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoaR9PbvM0U video to this effect!!

Well, it'd be a huge-ass battle, and environment would have to be taken into consideration.

If it was one on one, it would be a Nord, Imperial, or Orc victory, hands down. The larger the number, the more favorable Dunmer are. Ancestor's Flame would be damned deadly if there was a massive group of Dunmer fighting another large group. However, if they were fighting Bretons, or a ranged-focusing class, it'd be useless, maybe even detrimental, considering it would damage their allies (although they have fire resistance, so it wouldn't be by much).
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Daniel Holgate
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:12 am

Nord, battle cry, run away in fear [censored]s
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Rowena
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:41 pm

The OP gave the Orcs an ideal field to operate on. The only thing better would be a valley where they were charging downhill.
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:43 am

Because each and every Dunmer is an unstoppable god-king of magic, swordsmanship, archery, and tactics.

I totally forgot the enitre Dunmer race was made up of Keanu Reeves types.
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Emzy Baby!
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Where was that confirmed? In the last thread the opposite was confirmed. If you scale up to 10 you do that much more damage.
I should elaborate; increasing scale affects damage, but base scale does not. Altmer do not do more damage.

This was posted in this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1286166-hidden-stat-differences-based-on-race-selection/page__st__40
Here's my workings;

Hitting Imperial Captain with a Daedric Warhammer (first enemy you meet with a new character);

Base hp = 50

After one hit;

Breton = 44.21 (Scale 1, base 1.00)
Altmer = 44.21 (Scale 1, base 1.08)

Breton = 38.41 (Scale 2, base 2.00)
Altmet = 38.41 (Scale 2, base 2.16)

Changing scale via the console effects damage, sure, but everything in the game has a default console scale of 1 so damage wont be effected by race. Base scale doesn't effect damage which is what is different between races.

If their run speed tests are correct, then the taller races run slightly faster, which makes sense, but it doesn't effect damage.
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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:53 am

I totally forgot the enitre Dunmer race was made up of Keanu Reeves types.

Nah, they're more like a hypothetical Chuck Norris-Ninja-Pirate-Einstein with arrow-knee syndrome immunity.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:32 am

I should elaborate; increasing scale affects damage, but base scale does not. Altmer do not do more damage.

This was posted in this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1286166-hidden-stat-differences-based-on-race-selection/page__st__40

Ah okay, thanks for that clarification.
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Charity Hughes
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:21 pm

I don't understand ancestor wrath all. It's garbage damage and being already great at destruction you can get Flame Cloak pretty early. Am I missing something here? And surely you are referring to Ghost from Oblviion?
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Lauren Graves
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:45 pm

To everyone saying Magic would counter the orcs.

Magic doesn't travel as far as arrows, orcs have arrows. Orcs would be the strongest.
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RObert loVes MOmmy
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:39 am

To everyone saying Magic would counter the orcs.

Magic doesn't travel as far as arrows, orcs have arrows. Orcs would be the strongest.
And magic, orcs have magic too.
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Fiori Pra
 
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