You're right about the civil war, but the word walls don't prove anything. People know the dragon script and can translate it, and can feel the power from certain words (http://imperial-library.info/content/dragon-language-myth-no-more). They just can't shout it without training (which you can't either, until you kill a dragon).

If you ignore the Jarl however, then Whiterun itself loses a lot of quests options. You are given an order that you are supposed to follow, not doing so is entirely possible but the Jarl and the court wizard make it perfectly clear that this is a top priority for them. So you should probably get going.

This isn't much different from ignoring Caius, except in the sense that the Jarl is far more important for the rest of the game.

What a lame excuse

Totally agree. The whole chosen one theme is an old type of storytelling that basically tells that unless you are from a special lineage you should just shut up and witness the events unfold. After all, who wants heroes coming from the masses and challenging the order of things.

I liked Oblivion for this reason. You're not the Emperor, and you never will be. You work for the Emperor, the one who stops the Oblivion Crisis. It's pretty much all his magical powers... and... stuff... that win the day. You just do the heavy lifting alongside many other Blades.

To be honest, im kind of sick of the whole "ohhhoh your uh prisonrt eho saves the world"

We need more Niko Bellics, courier 6 or hell even Chells from portal

What I loved about Morrowind was that at the start of the game I felt powerless, I'd save and reload repeatedly while looting peoples houses just to get by, eventually I'd use that money and join a guild/faction.

By the end of the game it felt like I had truly accomplished something.

One thing specifically that I absolutely loved about morrowind is that it gave the true meaning of "exploration". There was no compass that would tell you that "hey theres an abandoned shack or a cave hidden here". I prefer to find dungeons on my own because it made the ability to explore that much more thrilling and if needed have someone mark the location on my map.

Another thing I would like to quote is that I believe that the best kind of story out there is when it combines the elements of "being chosen and not being chosen". For example, based on dungeons and dragons rp your character starts at level 1 which is basically you being a hapless commoner with some "clouded past" who is equipped and skilled for the needs of adventure and in need of a reputation. As you do all these dungeons and after killing every villain you eventually get more and more powerful and begin to discover clues to a bigger and larger plot afoot. Eventually, it comes down to where your a threat to the main villains plans and so end up being a thorn to his side. After that has been established he either tries to have you killed or hopes that you don't discover more into his plans so eventually it all comes down to you and your party being the only ones who have enough capability and firepower to stop the main villain after defeating his adversaries mainly because they're the ones who know of the villains plans, where and how to defeat him, what he is capable of, and your the ones who are tearing his plans apart so who better to defeat him and is more qualified than say another group of adventurers who have no idea whats going on and so are kind of getting thrown into the fire.

I have been a dungeon master myself for several years and I know very well that the most thrilling part of a story is keeping the players guessing. What could possibly happen in their next adventure or what wonders will they discover in the future and also giving the player a "personal" reason to hate the villain so much that he wants to kill him? Its those little elements that in my opinion can make a story quite a thrill to get involved in. One feature that I also try to bring in to my adventures is the villain trying to stop the main party or try to get the players to feel like "hey, the main villain is a real pain in the [censored] and I wanna hurry up and kill him!!". Making the players "want or feel needed" to kill the main villain can also cause a huge impact in a good story.

Now put in Skyrim's perspective, knowledge of you being "the chosen one" or "dragonborn" gets revealed to you pretty early on in the game. There really is hardly any room for you to be a "level 1 guy who discovers whats going on before real events unfold. The story was designed to get you ready being dragonborn and to deliver the suspense of you "the chosen one" going against the "eater of worlds" so as to deliver the thrill of this great battle being surmised where everything is at stake. So if you die then Alduin devours everyone in Sovngarde. If you win the world continues on in its current state. There is hardly any other villain other than Alduin and the dragons that you really have to contend with and all Alduin really does is resurrect dragons so what else is there to do other than getting ready to defeat him?

As far as I'm concerned it wasn't an *order*, it was a request. You're really stretching here and exaggerating the role of Balgruf. He is one Jarl among many, and Jarl's are crticized for their flaws and lack of leadership by their own people, including Balgruf. So, I don't understand why you think it is imperative to do anything that he tells you. You aren't even a member of his community when you first meet him so he has absolutely nil authority over you. Not only that, you don't even have to meet the guy if you don't want to. Like I said, just because some guy in Riverwood that I just met, who was the uncle of the guy who escorted me out of Helgen, asked me to go speak to him in no way, shape, or form means I *must* go speak to him. I couldn't care less about that guy. Sorry to burst your bubble, Skyrim doesn't *lock you in* to the MQ and doesn't force you to become the Dragonborn. It only does if you can't differentiate suggestion from command... and that's a flaw in you, not the game.

Oblivion instantly cornholed you into the role of the mysterious savior who would prevent the world from being consumed by Oblivion the minute you exited the character creation screen. You were forced to *stretch* in order to escape that reality.

Morrowind and Skyrim are alike in the sense that they gave you the freedom to choose the minute you started. In Morrowind, sure Caius had me freed... but if I'm a former prisoner, why *must* I go see what he has to say? Why would I? Same thing with Skyrim. The game starts out with you being just some guy that was captured on the border with a bunch of rebels. You're a prisoner about to be executed. There is nothing about that beginning that *compels* you to listen to the Uncle in Riverwood, absolutely nothing. For all we know, you couldn't care less what happens to Skyrim or the dragons. Maybe you were ensnared on the border for doing something wrong. Maybe your character was in Skyrim for adventure, to loot, to follow up on some of the lengends and see if you could make yourself rich off of the treasure found. Maybe you wanted to start a new life there and the goal was to get a house in some town. But you aren't compelled in any way to become the Dragonborn.

I know how you feel. Personally, in Bethesda's RPGs I try my best to play as some average Joe soldier or mercenary. In both Fallout's I pretended to be just another wasteland wanderer. In the Elder Scrolls games I have played, I always pretend to be just another thief or mage. I think this is one reason I like to play MMOs, because you can't help but feel like just one of the millions of would-be heroes running around, you actually have to work to make yourself above the norm.

Cool. Now go complete the war with your High Elf. Tell me how it works out for you.

Actually, it isn't. The Jarl thinks someone of your "particular talents" (ie, adventuring) would be helpful for his wizard Farengar, but all Farengar wants is for you to retrieve an ancient stone tablet for his research project. It's not a top priority, and it's not really said that it's vitally important, or that you're the only one that can do it. Farengar also says the ruin it may be in is dangerous, which gives you a good excuse to turn it down at that point (if only there was a dialog option..) and instead let some other sellsword do it.

From there, you don't have to involve yourself with it anymore. All ties to the MQ are cut and no more obligation to it. No in-character reason to compel you back regardless of your "alignment". No dragons will spawn, and although you can learn words from word walls (which normal people could too), you can't shout.

The civil war quests put a bit of a kink in that plan, but if you don't progress too far in those, there's nothing in- or out-of-character that requires you to do the MQ.

The difference is in how your character sees the world. If I'm playing a nice person then I won't ignore Whiterun and the Jarl there, after all I don't mind helping peole and Whiterun sounds like an interesting place anyway.

Secondly, I have been told at least three times that dragons are the harbingers of the end time, what am I supposed to do if I don't know any better let the world burn?

Now if I RP an evil son of a [censored] that knows better then Dragons are world eaters I could ignore it easily, however that's not the type of char I RP half the time. The fault then still lies with the game forcing certain characters into certain situations namely the MQ right from the begining.


"Are you still here? I thought you would be on your way to Bleak Falls Barrow by now. You should get going, the Jarl is not a patient man and come to think of it, neither am I". A rough quote by Farengar.

There aren't any gameplay consequences, still he makes it clear he wants you to do it. Immediately.

Just to add my two cents worth about the OP. I agree it feels forced, you cannot escape your destiny, I never activate dragons on this game (apart from my first playthough), I try and stay away from being the 'Chosen One" as much as possible. I like just being a normally person in the world doing my own thing. Also this is why I like Dragon Age, you're only chosen because you are the last Grey Warden and it has falling onto you as there is no one else. You're special because you had to be, not because you were supposed to be. Again this is why I like FNV, wrong place wrong time.

One of the many reasons I dislike Bethesda's writing and TES series as a whole. Don't get me wrong though I love Skyrim and its gameplay aspects.

That... was very well said i agree that all the bullcrap about already being the hero instead of becoming a hero

Regardless of whether there's a prophecy pointing the way, or you just work your way up to it from humble/unknown beginnings, I like being "special" in games. Why would anyone want to be Joe Normal?


Considering that the rest of the people around you in the game tend to see that as crazy heroism / beyond them (unless they outnumber by a good margin), I'd say that being able to take out dragons & giants makes your character "special". They're the Hero?, they can do stuff the regular folks can't.

So it's hard to ignore dragons, but the ash storms and the rampaging ash-creatures are easy to ignore?

It's pretty easy to avoid Skyrim's MQ, after exiting the cave go left not right. Don't follow the Imperial/Stormcloak home and you're not asked to go to Whiterun. That black dragon is never heard of again.

Given the situation it makes sense to get away from the Imperial who knows you're a criminal and the Stormcloak cause that's the reason your head was going to be chopped off.

Are you sure you read what I was replying to? If you did then I guess I didn't fully get your reply, but it seem a bit off.

And this is why i prefer Oblivions MQ over Skyrims~

In movies, games or books, the whole notion of prophesy just rubs me the wrong way. If the protagonist is predestined to defeat the Great Evil One, there is little excitement, even if we all know that the protagonist is going to win anyway, because the hero (almost) always win. Even if the price is high. Dangling it in front of our eyes makes our willing suspension of our disbelief much more difficult.

Having said that, consider the following scenario. Assume that someone knew that in some future, the Great Evil One would try to destroy the world, and that in order to stop the Great Evil One, someone would have to do a number of things. This could be written down in some book, or that person could make up a prophecy. A prophecy sounds more grand, and may give the future Chosen One more support than just being following the recipe in the book. Also, a prophecy may have a greater chance of being remembered than a book has of surviving. So, using prophecies make a lot of sense, even if they are bogus.

Why? You write prophetic, but he could have taken too much skooma, for all the player knows. Also ... the player had the nice experience of the Emperors dungeon, so the player could, say, have a beef with the whole Emperor thing. And why should the player care who happens to become the next Emperor? Not to mention that those who participate in the Game of Thrones seem to have a short life expectancy and generally interact with a lot of people who can put you (or your loved ones) to death if you utter the wrong words. Better to go somewhere else.

So far, I haven't managed to finish the MQ in Oblivion. Which is somewhat impressive given how many hours I have played that game.

Yeah, it does get old pretty fast. The rail-roaded quest lines were worse, though. Usually lost interest around halfway through. You know, yet another dungeon to clear to get to the cut scene.

What is this fascination with being in prison

The last one can be explained if your character makes sure to stay drunk whenever he or she is near a word wall.

I think there is a simple flaw in your logic.

If people could truly see the future and write future events down then they would see what you would one day become and this tell about it.

It's hard to say that you can climb to power and not have it prophicized (that a word or at least spelled correctly).

yes because they had nothing to do with you, there was no marker for the Nerevarine in the sense that there is for the DB, as a DB you're inescapably linked to the Dragons you are Bound to do with them as Prophecy states. as a person in TES:Morrowind, you're not linked to the ash storms ash Vamps or blight, they are just occurences that happens on Vvardenfell, hell its not even prophetic its a way of life.

in Skyrim the Dragons herald the end time, and duty is squarely placed on your shoulders to deal with them.


Disclaimer I am not arguing against being the chosen one, just making a point.

Simply wittnising the events that transpire while the real hero does all the work?

Sounds like you guys should play Oblivion.