We were not the chosen one in Oblivion. Martin was.

if not for alduin you would be a headless chosen one. so i dont think your life was that pre determined

Uh, a single dragonborn to coincidentally rise against an evil dragon who wants to swallow the world?

If that isnt pre determined, i dont know what is.

When a prophetic Emperor with a powerful artifact says your character needs to do something, how could they just ignore it if they aren't abnormally dumb, nihilistic, or heartless? Even if you didn't believe his prophecy, the Emperor was just assassinated along with his known heirs, so finding Martin to get the next Emperor on the throne would still be an important task. And since he glued the Amulet of Kings on you, you have to involve yourself since they'll need the Amulet.

Few quotes from the incarnates in the cave:

Hort Ledd: I died four hundred years ago, in the last days of turmoil and unrest after the Empire came to Morrowind. I was a thinker, and not a doer, and though I was marked by the stars, I was not a hero. Take these things of mine. My bones won't complain.

Peakstar: I am a failed Incarnate. So are all these who remain here with me in the Cavern of the Incarnate. I survived the blight, but I fell in battle with an Ash Vampire. I could not master the arts of war. Nor could I learn the ways of the Great Houses. They would not have accepted me as Hortator. Take these few poor things... they are of no use to me.

It doesn't necessarily prove that they were meant to be the moon and star, but not a single of the failed incarnates died when putting on the moon and star, hell it doesn't seem any one of them even tried. So that's not the reason why they never became the Nerevarine. They died in combat, so I'm still left unsure here. I also don't understand why Azura would ever allow a bunch of imposters in her cave after their deaths, or why their souls would be bound to Azura.

At the same time Peakstar was the last incarnate before the PC, and everybody seemed to believe they fit. Yet the Wise woman needs to get guidance from Azura before admitting that you might be possible, you'd think she would have done that with every incarnate.

True, that makes a difference. I just always assumed the -ine meant incarnate, don't know why but it made sense.

Hmm, I see. That does make it a tough call, but I'd still say they weren't chosen by virtue of them failing. When dealing with gods like Azura, why would they choose someone who ultimately fails?

It makes the most sense given the context it's used in, but since it's not a familiar suffix to me, I can't say if it implies anything more.

My criminal scum couldn't care less about politics and who rules the empire - Uriel or Mariel or anyone at all. She was in prison because she deserved to be there, and got a chance to get out of prison which she eagerly took, and didn't care about anything else but not getting caught again.

Well, that's just it. For non-evil aligned characters, Oblivion particularly pushed the whole MQ down your throat. It's important to get to Jauffre to find Martin, then it's important to get martin out of Kvatch ASAP, then it's important to run Jauffre's and Martin's errands, it's important to close the gates, etc. It never gives non-evil characters a breather and a chance to back off from playing the part of the chosen one since the whole Empire is put at stake. Evil characters may not care, but others would.

Morrowind gave you a couple points where you're told to go do something not MQ related, though it's still with the understanding that you'll come back and do the errands when you're more experienced.

Don't get me wrong: I love Skyrim. I think there are many things that are an improvement on Oblivion. Followers, dual wielding, the new race designs...I could go on about all that for days. But this post is not about a love-fest. It's about the one thing I really, truly dislike about the game:

I do not like "chosen one" stories. No matter the format. Books, shows, films, games, whatever it is, I am always turned off by the protagonist being "destined" for his fate. (Note that some of this does not apply to Skyrim, but it is often found in other "chosen one" stories.)

Give me a story about someone working her way up from nothing. GIve me someone who is not written of in prophecy, whose destiny is not found in the stars, whose victory is not assured. A hero doesn't need a special birth or lineage or powers. She doesn't need to be marked for death by the villain Because It Is Written, but because she grows to be a threat to his plans. Allies shouldn't fall in line just because someone wrote it down centuries before. What about all the people who were fighting before you were? Why do they step aside for someone seen in a crystal ball?

It is far less thrilling to be a savior when you already are one. You can't escape destiny. You can't turn away from it, say no, because it's in the script. Not only that, it makes saying "yes, I will step up, I will do this" much less exciting. You were meant to play the part all along. You had no choice. Your cards are laid out for you. Your motives don't matter. You could be doing it for power, greed, spite, boredom, freedom, et cetera, but ultimately you are doing it to Be A Hero. Trust isn't earned, it's forced.

It also makes anyone who opposes the hero into a complete idiot from the get go. Enemies and naysayers don't have a point when they argue against you. They're either with you or against you (nevermind that they could be neutral or apathetic or any number of things). You could play as one of the most evil people around, even worse than the antagonist, but it doesn't matter because you're were chosen to save, to lead. You are right, ultimately, and that is that. Your motives don't matter. Your mistakes are inconsequential. Her flaws are scrubbed, her ends justify her means. The accomplishments you make and the accomplishments of others are diminished because you are Special.

This is often found hand in hand with the villain who has no motivation. The villain is bad Because. The villain eats kittens for breakfast and children for dinner so we know that he is Evil. He is so obviously evil that his wrongness is unquestionable, and, rather boring. The antagonist should have motivations too. Good points and bad points, flaws and good qualities. Black and white makes for a limited palette, and when you are the chosen one, those are often the colors you end up with.

A hero shouldn't be special because of what she is, rather she should be special because of what she becomes.

There could be another Dragonborn who the Greybeards can't sense and has not learned of his/her powers.

Agree with the OP 100%. In Daggerfall I never felt chosen. In Oblivion it was there, but Martin was really the chosen one. You were there to help, but it was Martin's sacrifice that ends the crisis. I liked that because you could go back to being forgotten.

Morrowind and Skyrim were IMHO the worst for this, as you are constantly referred to as Dragon Born or Nerevarine once the MQ is done. In Skyrim's case Dragon Born comes out early and often.

My favorite fantasy series is the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series. They are not princes, they are destined for nothing, they just live to live. I try to RP my primary character like that. Fortunately, the open world of TES allows that to a great extent, but I honestly cringe every time I hear "Dragon Born".

Though having said that, I have no problem playing the Dragonborn in a game abut the dragonborn saving the world. Some characters you do, some you don't.

As far as I'm concerned, gamesas could have done away with the civil war and dragon crisis, and merely fleshed out the guilds as an alternative. Drop the character into a world in which they're not the savior, but rather just another adventurer seeking their fortune.

I would have gone a step further, and made the factions exclusive. Don't permit the character to join more than 1-2 guilds at a time, and increase the entry requirements significantly. Since the focus of the game would be on factions or guilds, might as well throw in the Forsworn and Thalmor as playable factions.

If Beth's idea was to provide us with a sandbox, then I say they should abandon the central story arch altogether. Alternately, make it optional at start up.

I personally love being the 'chosen one' and the hero in games. One of my favorite things about gaming is that it's a chance to escape from real life and live another. I'm a dull everyday guy in real life. I want to be more than that in Skyrim.

Well, that's just it. For non-evil aligned characters, Oblivion particularly pushed the whole MQ down your throat. It's important to get to Jauffre to find Martin, then it's important to get martin out of Kvatch ASAP, then it's important to run Jauffre's and Martin's errands, it's important to close the gates, etc. It never gives non-evil characters a breather and a chance to back off from playing the part of the chosen one since the whole Empire is put at stake. Evil characters may not care, but others would.

I must be remembering Oblivion wrong.
Oh wait, do we mean that you're the Chosen One because the Emperor foretold it?