No the one way before that

I hate this myself and it seems to be a recurring thing in modern games - not saying it didn't excist in older titles, just not as often.

This along with making games more streamlined as well as lowering the chances of failure - making sure kids can feel special.
It miss that era of gaming where games hated you, spat in your face and called you scum.

As far as I remember, In Morrowind you were nothing to start with.
I also remember my first few hours in EverQuest, on the Freeport side where the guards treated you as trash at first. And you were trash, weak, pathetic.

Better let the player work his way up, that way when you finally get there - whatever path you choose to take - it will feel alot bigger.

Sure you are a prisoner at first in Skyrim, but then again you get to know right away that you arent supposed to be there.. and then not shortly after you are the dragonborn.

Quote from Zero Punctiation's review on Age of Conan:

"Age of Conan does the same mistake as the school system by telling everyone that they are special, thus turning them into entitled twatdonkeys."

Quoted everything that is said before it:


"The Book of the Dragonborn
by
Prior Emelene Madrine
Order of Talos
Weynon Priory
Year 360 of the Third Era,
Twenty-First of the Reign of
His Majesty Pelagius IV

Many people have heard the term "Dragonborn" - we are of course ruled by the "Dragonborn Emperors" - but the true meaning of the term is not commonly understood. For those of us in the Order of Talos, this is a subject near and dear to our hearts, and in this book I will attempt to illuminate the history and significance of those known as Dragonborn down through the ages."

Please show me what sentence you meant, because I see nothing that discredits this source, let alone stand the others I've posted.

Well the Greybeards say you are the only one that has been revealed. They never flat out said there are no more. Even they were unsure

So much this. It really is satisfying to work your way up from nothing.

My post was in response to the idea that another Dragonborn or more might, maybe, kinda exist and because of that it doesn't really mean you're the chosen one. Which isn't true. None of these others are seen or attempt to stop the things you're stopping, so bringing them up as an example to invalidate the whole "destiny" thing isn't working. They don't show up. They aren't at Helgen, etc. That was my point.

I understand OP sentiments, but may I remind that the series is called The Elder Scrolls. Those are prophecies, things have been inscribed in the elder scrolls whether you/your chosen one likes it or not - (bad) luck for the guy/girl. So you're barking at the wrong tree The good news is, there are other great games where your hero starts as a more or less ordinary guy/girl, for example, Dragon Age: Origins.

I agree with OP completely. In case of Oblivion and Skyrim I use alternate start mods that allow you to ignore the MQ completely.

Say what you want about Dragon Age 2, but I loved how the protagonist isn't a chosen one. (S)he starts as a poor refugee and takes control of his/her fate. In the end, when (s)he succeeds, it was because of his/her actions, not because the stars said so.

It's a weak excuse, but still one you can use. In Skyrim the world isn't going to immediately end unless you keep throwing yourself at the Main Quest. But it takes longer before anybody confirms the incoming destruction of the world. You don't have to be a mythical hero persé... It's not perfect but still a step better then Oblivion in my opinion.

Speaking of Oblivion, my criminal scum saw it as an opportunity to get out of the prison and nothing more. Whatever Uriel blabbers about seeing me in his dreams whatnot, could be accounted for dementia - he's 87 after all. So my criminal scum shoved the Amulet of Kings in her pocket and never bothered to deliver it anywhere, and the world seems to be doing just fine, and the world sees her for who she is or rather pretends to be which definitely isn't some predestined hero

The series is called The Elder Scrolls yes, yet in the previous titles you didn't have amazing powers nor told you were special 1 hour into the game.

You have Oblivion gates opening all over the place... That doesn't seem to be that great if you ask me.

But I guess if you can RP a character that just doesn't care or believe him that's great. I never managed to do that.

In Skyrim, you don't start with special powers and status either. It's optional.

Still you are immediately to send to Riverwood, which immediately sends you to Whiterun where you are immediately send to Bleak Falls Barrow where you are immediately fighting a dragon and send towards the greybeards. All of this can be done in under an hour.

In Daggerfell you needed to finish the game before you were called special, in Morrowind you needed to level a bit before you would even get an order, and after that you still weren't important straight away.

Prophecies end up being an annoying crutch a lot of fantasy stories fall back on. I'm not saying that they can't be done well, but that they're too common and often misused. Prophecies tend to svck a lot of the life out of a story. I can't overstate just how boring it gets to read book after book about someone "destined" to do things. It removes a sense of agency and accomplishment. If you're already predicted to do great things or master great powers, then it is likely you'll suceed. (Not all of my dislike for the "chosen one" stories is directed at Skyrim, mind.)

Elder scrolls predicting turmoil or change and other interesting events rather than the destined hero to save us all would definity be avoiding certain cliches in the future. Granted those reading the elder scrolls supposedly see branching paths, but the scrolls do end up becoming "fixed" after certain actions are taken, so they essentially function the same as any other prophecy. I just hope they stay esoteric as they are said to be in the lore.

The game is far more linear at first then the previous titles tho - it's basicly throwing you at the first dragon kill. Sure, the second time you play it you could avoid it if you felt like it. But as I said erlier - they also let you know you are not even supposed to be executed in the first place.

I made a longer post on page 2 if you are interested in a more detailed explanation of my opinion on the matter.

You never get to see any Oblivion gates if you ignore MQ. In Skyrim, you don't get to see any dragons and noone ever including yuourself finds out that you're special, if you chose so. So in both games it is still possible to ignore the being god-sent whatnot thing, and to start out as an ordinary guy/girl.

Actually, I'd say they weren't chosen. They were false incarnates, people who believed they could but failed to fulfill the prophecy (and you can't be The Chosen One to fulfill a prophecy if you can't fulfill it). If I recall correctly, they all died when trying to wear Moon-and-Star, which clearly puts them in the not-the-Nerevarine camp since Azura didn't allow them to wear it.

By Ashlanders, who also see "Nerevarine" as a title for their war-leader. So even if you are a reincarnated Nerevar, you don't become the Nerevarine to them until you prove yourself capable.

I'm a bit curious about what the -ine suffix actually means though, since TES is the only place I see it to mean 'the reincarnation of'. Perhaps it could be that "Nerevarine" does not strictly mean "the reincarnation of Nerevar".

The CoW, DB, and TG for sure, but I wouldn't put the Companions there.

Kvatch is destroyed regardless of your actions. Sure the city is for some reason entirely irrelevant in the game, doesn't even have guild halls, merchants or anything of importance but should you go there you will still find yourself facing Mehrunes his army.


Few quotes from the incarnates in the cave:

Hort Ledd: I died four hundred years ago, in the last days of turmoil and unrest after the Empire came to Morrowind. I was a thinker, and not a doer, and though I was marked by the stars, I was not a hero. Take these things of mine. My bones won't complain.

Peakstar: I am a failed Incarnate. So are all these who remain here with me in the Cavern of the Incarnate. I survived the blight, but I fell in battle with an Ash Vampire. I could not master the arts of war. Nor could I learn the ways of the Great Houses. They would not have accepted me as Hortator. Take these few poor things... they are of no use to me.

It doesn't necessarily prove that they were meant to be the moon and star, but not a single of the failed incarnates died when putting on the moon and star, hell it doesn't seem any one of them even tried. So that's not the reason why they never became the Nerevarine. They died in combat, so I'm still left unsure here. I also don't understand why Azura would ever allow a bunch of imposters in her cave after their deaths, or why their souls would be bound to Azura.

At the same time Peakstar was the last incarnate before the PC, and everybody seemed to believe they fit. Yet the Wise woman needs to get guidance from Azura before admitting that you might be possible, you'd think she would have done that with every incarnate.



True, that makes a difference. I just always assumed the -ine meant incarnate, don't know why but it made sense.

We were not the chosen one in Oblivion. Martin was.

Kvatch had an Arena and a Mages Guild hall

When a prophetic Emperor with a powerful artifact says your character needs to do something, how could they just ignore it if they aren't abnormally dumb, nihilistic, or heartless? Even if you didn't believe his prophecy, the Emperor was just assassinated along with his known heirs, so finding Martin to get the next Emperor on the throne would still be an important task. And since he glued the Amulet of Kings on you, you have to involve yourself since they'll need the Amulet.

Hmm, i think thats because bethesda probably didnt put that much effort into storytelling; they were probably busy with creating the world and such. If they could borrow some pointers from bioware it would be lovely many of the choices in dragon age origins, for example, are rather grey ( the apparent "villain" has a justifiable choice for his/her actions as well), which makes it more interesting.

Though i suspect bethesda wants to make the game "epic", which would include the usual "chosen one defeating evil villain who wants to destroy the world for fun".

there also were not any dragons to kill or souls to absorb so its entirely possible they could have

if not for alduin you would be a headless chosen one. so i dont think your life was that pre determined