Enlighten me.

Yes it is, the Septims could not shout because they never learned to. Everybody in the world can learn to shout, but you need either practice or dragon souls and word walls. No Septim since Tiber had that, so it's logical they didn't shout.

If you weren't the chosen one you wouldn't be able to fus ro dah people off high places and the game would be ruined!

I personally love being the 'chosen one' and the hero in games. One of my favorite things about gaming is that it's a chance to escape from real life and live another. I'm a dull everyday guy in real life. I want to be more than that in Skyrim.

The Dragonborn/Dovahkiin status is a random or prophecized occurance that no bloodline gets for sure. 1 being is born as such regardless of heritage. The Septim line was blessed by Akatosh but they were not Dovahkiin

*slaps forehead*

To quote the same book again.

The connection with the rulers of the Empire was thus there from the beginning - [b]only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires.All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn - the Emperors and Empresses of the first Cyrodilic Empire founded by Alessia; Reman Cyrodiil and his heirs; and of course Tiber Septim and his heirs, down to our current Emperor, His Majesty Pelagius Septim IV.

Confirming once again that all Emperors were dragonborn, and dragonblood.

So long as the Blood of the Dragon runs strong in her rulers, the glory of the Empire shall extend in unbroken years. But should the dragonfires fail, and should no heir of our joined blood wear the Amulet of Kings, then shall the Empire descend into darkness, and the Demon Lords of Misrule shall govern the land.'

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trials-saint-alessia. Showing that each Emperor that lit the Dragonfires was dragonborn.

On behalf of the suffering human races, St. Alessia, the first in the line of Cyrodiils, sought the aid of Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time, and ruler of the noble Aedra. Akatosh, looking with pity upon the plight of men, drew precious blood from his own heart, and blessed St. Alessia with this blood of Dragons, and made a Covenant that so long as Alessia's generations were true to the dragon blood, Akatosh would endeavor to seal tight the Gates of Oblivion, and to deny the armies of daedra and undead to their enemies, the Daedra-loving Ayleids.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/book-dragonborn

They are the exact same thing. There is no difference between being dragonborn and having dragonblood. All Emperors that Tamriel has seen were dragonborn.

Dragonborn=Dragon Soul, Dragonblood=Self explanatory

You keep saying that, but you are wrong. I've shown you sources that quite frankly state that you are wrong. Now if you have some sources that would dispute that, please show them. Otherwise this discussion is becoming incredibly useless.

I think both are fine. Depends on the delivery and the originality.

For example, I like Morrowind's delivery of "you're the Chosen One." It presents it in such a way that suggests that you're really quite an ordinary guy that no one would ever guess is the chosen one, until you actually realize you are.
However, the idea of being the Chosen One can become dull. Why? Because it's insincere appreciation. Nothing you've done in the game feels like it's been earned, but rather the NPCs are programmed to think you're awesome from day one. In that sense, being a nobody can feel equally as fun because you truly do earn all the respect you get.

I think a mix is best. I suppose TES sorta did that since CoC starts out as a nobody, but he's still in some ways "chosen."

Going back to Oblivion: I never really considered it set in stone simply because old Emperor Uriel said he saw the sun's companion in my face. I don't have any experience of the character before this, keep in mind.

What I'm saying is that just because a character or set of characters claims that so-and-so is destined to do whatever doesn't necessarily mean it has to happen. Unless that character is Azura or someone similar.

The 1st source started with "According to some Scholars" so that book is theory

Agree with the insincere appreciation. It feels like all the "prizes" are inevitable for the main character. Inevitability just hangs over the story the whole time. I did like Oblivion's version since ultimately
As for the other conversation going on in this thread: dragon souls or dragon blood, it doesn't matter. Special blood is very similar to the whole destiny thing as well. It also carries connotations I find disagreeable.

true, the MQ should happen beside you character while you do other stuff. The Chosen one should do what he does but you should not have to play as him

Both can have good narratives and be fun to play, but if I'm playing a narrative where there is a chosen one, I'd rather play as it than play alongside it.

Would you rather be Superman, or Superman's Pal: Jimmy Olsen? You'll get your own comic book either way, but in one you'll pretty much be a god, and in the other you're... an unremarkable human being who knows a guy who's pretty much a god.

Id be the guy laughing at the alien who has been wearing the same ugly tights since he was created...F#ck superman

Though having said that, I have no problem playing the Dragonborn in a game abut the dragonborn saving the world. Some characters you do, some you don't.

Well you helped run 5 errands. And the guild master conveniently died. We're not just giving you the position aribtrarily, or anything, but here you go guildmaster!

*Snort* Yeah...that one was really bad. I still can't believe that was all there was to it.

I like the idea that you may not be dragonborn from the moment you are born, but you perhaps have it bestowed upon you at some point. I dont mind either, being born dragonborn or merely being chosen to be later in life is fine for me. I imagine that there are others who could do it though, perhaps some dormant one walking about. Some of the bandit chiefs could, I think, take on a dragon and win

I actually flipped out at this.

Oh great and glorious guildmaster we require your mighty power to. . run more errands for us!

Now they've gone down the route of world saving superhero it'll be difficult to go back and have the next TES revolve around some regular guy that ends up doing something pretty important. They'll feel compelled to ramp up the epicness. Fallout was better - both the lone wanderer and the courier were people who had personal motivations for getting embroiled in a bigger picture they played a major role in but didn't exclusively define the outcome of. The lone wanderer's (original) climix was part of an overall assault that really hinged on a (daft) giant robot they'd had nothing to do with and the courier tipped the balance towards whatever outcome. The world would have carried on without them, just the outcomes would have been different and maybe worse for a lot of people which validates their output. In NV you can screw things up for a lot of people if you want. But you'll neither save the world nor end it. It makes you important but not that important which means the games aren't bound to ramping up or having comparable stakes next time. This actually gets pretty boring IMO - saving the world - again. I prefer situations that can be a bit ambiguous and not so clear cut. IMO Skyrim would actually have been better if the civil war had been the MQ with attention paid to a bunch of consequences that are really mixed and while you help some people you really badly shaft others so you have to choose really carefully which you think is the lesser of two evils with options along the way to slightly affect the overall outcome so you can change the overall positive and negatives outcomes for some people. Like for example if the Stormcloaks win they move to start overtly persecuting the Dunmer because they figure they gave them sanctuary but they never helped the war - represented maybe by them being replaced with Nords in Windhelm and homeless Dunmer appearing on the roads with new dialogue to reflect what's happened - but maybe you could have sub quest(s) to get the Dunmer actively helping the Stormcloaks and/or convince Ulfric the honourable course is to be magnaminous in victory and stop that happening. If you don't realise all the consequences on your first playthrough and mess things up a bit from what you'd like, this encourages you to play again to get your desired outcomes.

But I guess that sort of thing is perceived as uncommercial. And would involve careful and creative writing which is beyond Bethesda's ability.

Yes. In Daggerfall, you get sent on a mission to help a ghost find peace and find+destroy a "personal" letter. That's it, no big important world-saving event, and no prophecy that you're the only one to fulfill it. Even as you go through the game, it's essentially just a political power struggle in an area that's constantly in a power struggle, so nothing special. Even later one, the discovery of the Numidium and subsequent vying for control of it is not a world-ending threat, and you're not destined to be part of it (in fact, the Totem specifically tells you you're not the one it's meant for). The only time you're hinted as being special is when you're in Aetherius talking to Sheogorath, the proud, up-standing truth-sayer he is.

This was also the case in Bloodmoon. Though there was a prophecy, it was solely about Hircine's Hunt. You were not part of that prophecy, and you were not destined to beat the hunt. The hunt also posed no greater threat to the world outside of Solstheim.

I would disagree with that. Azura tells you in the opening movie, before you even see any real game play, that you've been chosen to fulfill the prophecy. This is further backed up by how you're the only one since Lord Nerevar that could wield Moon-and-Star, and the only one that could be cured of Corprus (if you talk to Fyr afterward, he tells you the cure he gave you killed everyone else he tried it on). So even though your character may be someone's pawn and not believe themself to actually be the Nerevarine, they're still chosen to fulfill the prophecy and would not have been able to do it otherwise.

The thing I like about Skyrim is that it can be played off that there's no actual world-ending threat, at least until you get moving along the MQ far enough. People are freaked out about seeing a dragon in the opening area and think it's a sign of the apocalypse, but that comes from Nordic legends and children's stories (note that Hadvar and Ralof are both Nords native to Skyrim, where they will have been exposed to this since they were kids). There were dragons in the service of the Empire at least until Battlespire, which was the late 3rd Era IIRC, and the book Twin Secrets tells of a dragon encounter some time in the 4th Era, so that on its own doesn't foretell anything. And the dragons don't even start attacking en-mass until

Though it would've been nice if the rest of the main quest (and guild quests...) didn't revolve around you being The Chosen One, it at least let you permanently shrug off the MQ before finding that out and without being a nihilist dike. In Oblivion you're told before you can leave the tutorial dungeon, and in Morrowind you're told in a dream sequence before you start playing, thus always putting the fate of Tamriel on your conscience.

You were chosen but those others were chosen too, otherwise they wouldn't have been in the cave of incarnates. Throughout the main quest you are also often told you are not the Nerevarine yet, but you may meet the criteria for the prophecy. Obviously surviving Corpus is huge but I don't think the cure was ever tried on any other Nerevarine, so it's hardly a fair comparisson. Still you were told straight from the start, so you could be right too, I just choose to believe that Azura would have picked somebody else if you wouldn't have tried or if you would have failed.


I agree, especially with that last part. There wasn't a single guild in Skyrim not in some huge trouble. The Companions, CoW, DB, Thieves Guild, you saved them all... Another thing I prefered in Morrowind. You didn't save a single guild, the best you can claim is to have improved the fate of House Redoran by a lot but that was only one of three possible houses.


You mean the following sentence?

"Most scholars agree that the term was first used in connection with the Covenant of Akatosh"

It doesn't state what you claimed, nor does it have the load you believe it to have. It simply refers to the time when the phrase was first used. Something which most scholars should believe because it's true. The author merely uses it as an argument to start the book with, nothing more.