Bethesda profit on skyrim?

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:06 pm

What I don't understand is peoples irrational fear of admitting that Oblivion really wasn't an amazing game, especially when compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall.

It goes both ways. It's like the "mainstream bro" argument. So, millions of people like something, and the one person who doesn't like it calls it "mainstream" and that everyone who does like it is wrong. Yeah, uh, call me when that logic starts to make sense. :rolleyes:


Agree. Oblivion wasnt that good. In fact it was pretty bland and boring mostly. Mods fixed that though.

Even if something sells and has a lot of mainstream success doesnt mean its good. It just means people know about it and its popular. By that logic Twilight is an amazing film. I doubt anyone who has seen actual amazing films would say that.

I dont completely agree about mainstream though. If millions of people like something it means that it must have qualities that attract the masses. Those are often things I dont like so mainstream games, films, music etc arent often for me. Artistically theyre usually pretty bad as well so selling well tells nothing about quality. Quantity instead of quality is often the thing with really mainstream stuff. Artistic quality and such rarely attract the majority. There are plenty of exceptions though so mainstream doesnt automatically equal bad. A movie for example can have things that attract both sides.
User avatar
Amber Ably
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:39 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:32 pm

What I don't understand is peoples irrational fear of admitting that Oblivion really wasn't an amazing game, especially when compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall.

It goes both ways. It's like the "mainstream bro" argument. So, millions of people like something, and the one person who doesn't like it calls it "mainstream" and that everyone who does like it is wrong. Yeah, uh, call me when that logic starts to make sense. :rolleyes:

It doesn't go both ways. Oblivion kicks Daggerfall's ass as a product and game (Here's a hint... Oblivion was finished, not rushed out the door after barely two years.) and don't go lumping together Daggerfall and Morrowind. The difference between them is far greater than any between Morrowind and Oblivion... or Daggerfall and Morrowind, for that case. As for Morrowind, it's simply because I do not feel Morrowind is a superior product. In terms of art style, it's clean, but then so is Oblivion's. In terms of setting, it's a barren rock. I far prefer Cyrodiil's natural beauty. Is it so hard for people to understand why someone might not like a drab, ash-covered rock that's a sea of brown? In terms of quest design, Morrowind simply doesn't have the variety or well-written quests of Oblivion. Nobody ever says "remember that amazing Morrowind quest", but people certainly reminisce about Whodunit? (Dark Brotherhood questline, in general), Secrets of the Ayleids, A Shadow Over Hackdirt, the Daedric shrine quests and all those other fantastic quests Oblivion has. Morrowind has a bunch of fetch quests and people have the nerve to pick on Oblivion's main quest for supposedly being repetitive while damn near every sidequest in Morrowind is repetitive and unremarkable as well as the Ashlander and Hortator quests in Morrowind. They also conveniently forget Morrowind's main quest really is every bit as linear. So much for replayability. People always go on and on about more content in Morrowind... but they never actually pick out a quest and talk about how much they loved it. Quantity means nothing if it's devoid of quality... otherwise why bother playing Morrowind when you could just play Daggerfall?

People always say Oblivion's dungeons are repetitive while conveniently not realizing that Oblivion has more dungeon pieces in its construction set than Morrowind does... meaning it objectively has more variety and Oblivion's dungeons are actually on the creepy side with their own music and atmosphere. As a matter of fact, Oblivion as a whole has more soundtracks and more specialized occasions for them than Morrowind. People always mention Morrowind's skills despite several being, well, useless and I still despise Morrowind's leveling system even more than I despise Oblivion's because I've got to pick even more skills I'll never touch for my character before I can proceed with character creation while both have that stupid efficient leveling garbage. People always pick on Oblivion's level-scaling while simultaneously claiming Oblivion is too easy. Level-scaling makes Oblivion far more difficult than Morrowind. It was put in Oblivion because people complained about how easy Morrowind was practically after levels 10-15... and it's true, Morrowind is easy. I'm level 40 in Oblivion and liches still scare me... especially if with other liches or undead. It's a very flawed solution, but one made to correct Morrowind's easiness... and Morrowind is pretty easy. Not having compass symbols and following vague, sometimes downright wrong directions is not challenge... it's tedious wandering.

Finally, people always talk down Oblivion's lore when they don't even have the slightest clue about Oblivion's lore. It's contained in the following ~140 books created exclusively for Oblivion:

Spoiler

1. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Life_of_Uriel_Septim_VII
2. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Rislav_The_Righteous
3. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ahzirr_Traajijazeri
4. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_the_Fighters_Guild
5. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fire_and_Darkness
6. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Five_Tenets
7. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Followers_of_the_Gray_Fox
8. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hiding_With_the_Shadow
9. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum

10. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancer%27s_Moon
11. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pension_of_the_Ancestor_Moth
12. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar
13. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief
14. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Warrior
15. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King
16. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_1
17. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_2

18. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_3
19. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_4
20. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar_Prince
21. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Exodus
22. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Knightfall
23. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Purloined_Shadows
24. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Refugees
25. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief_of_Virtue
26. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Adabal-a

27. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings
28. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Sancre_Tor
29. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man
30. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cleansing_of_the_Fane
31. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daughter_of_the_Niben
32. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer_History_and_Culture
33. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fall_of_Vitharn
34. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Last_King_of_the_Ayleids
35. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legendary_Sancre_Tor

36. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lost_Histories_of_Tamriel
37. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada
38. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_1
39. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_2
40. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_3
41. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_4
42. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_5
43. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_6
44. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_7

45. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Treatise_on_Ayleidic_Cities
46. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Advances_in_Lock_Picking
47. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayleid_Reference_Text
48. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bark_and_Sap
49. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calcinator_Treatise
50. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:De_Rerum_Dirennis
51. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:An_Elytra%27s_Life
52. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_Frog_to_Man
53. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fundaments_of_Alchemy
54. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heavy_Armor_Repair

55. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_Lock_Picking
56. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Immortal_Blood
57. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Light_Armor_Repair
58. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Liminal_Bridges
59. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lithnilian%27s_Research_Notes
60. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Liturgy_of_Affliction
61. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Living_Woods
62. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mace_Etiquette
63. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic_from_the_Sky

64. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Armor
65. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Arms
66. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Spellcraft
67. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Xedilian
68. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Predecessors
69. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proper_Lock_Design
70. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reality_%26_Other_Falsehoods
71. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Saints_and_Seducers
72. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Apothecary

73. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Bestiary
74. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Souls,_Black_and_White
75. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Standing_Stones
76. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Daedra
77. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Way_of_the_Exposed_Palm
78. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Agnar%27s_Journal
79. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amantius_Allectus%27_Diary
80. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancotar%27s_Journal
81. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Bloody_Journal
82. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brenus_Astis%27_Journal

83. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cap%27n_Dugal%27s_Journal
84. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cindanwe%27s_Notebook
85. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dar-Ma%27s_Diary
86. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Diary_of_Springheel_Jak
87. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion
88. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Field_Journal
89. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Journal
90. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Father_of_the_Niben

91. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Frostcrag_Spire_Memoirs
92. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gelebourne%27s_Journal
93. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greywyn%27s_Journal
94. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Grommok%27s_Journal
95. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Journal_of_the_Lord_Lovidicus
96. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Log_of_the_Emma_May
97. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Path_of_Transcendence
98. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ramblings_of_Audens_Avidius
99. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Red_Kitchen_Reader

100. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sacred_Witness
101. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sir_Amiel%27s_Journal
102. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traelius%27_Journal

103. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traitor%27s_Diary
104. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Macabre_Manifest
105. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Report:_Disaster_at_Ionith
106. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West_(book)
107. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mysterium_Xarxes
108. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tome_of_Unlife
109. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Legend_of_Krately_House
110. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco,_King_of_Worms
111. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Ravings_of_Fenroy
112. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Song_of_Hrormir
113. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Black_Arts_On_Trial

114. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myth_or_Menace%3F
115. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._VI
116. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._IX
117. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._XII
118. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bible_of_the_Deep_Ones
119. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Blessings_of_Sheogorath
120. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Divining_the_Elder_Scolls
121. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heretical_Thoughts

122. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Modern_Heretics
123. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_1
124. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_2
125. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_3
126. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_4
127. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myths_of_Sheogorath
128. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Opusculus_Lamae_Bal_ta_Mezzamortie
129. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Prophet_Arden-Sul
130. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarr_and_the_Divines
131. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ten_Commands:_Nine_Divines
132. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia

133. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Glories_and_Laments
134. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Anvil
135. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bravil
136. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bruma
137. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Cheydinhal
138. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Chorrol
139. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_the_Imperial_City
140. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Leyawiin
141. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_New_Sheoth
142. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Skingrad



User avatar
Laura Shipley
 
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:47 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:25 pm

you have to learn to differianciate pen and paper rpg and video games rpg pal. because if you dont the modern warfare campaing has infinite replayability because you can pretend whatever you want.

It's not infinite, but MW's campaign does have a significant amount of re-playability due to the number of ways you can go about defeating the enemy, using different weapon types and loadouts.

On the mainstream issue: all mainstream means is it has stuff in it people like. In my case, Oblivion had Feline Furries... Without the Khajiit race, I'd know nothing of the Elder Scrolls series.
User avatar
Lisa
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:57 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:08 am

Agree. Oblivion wasnt that good. In fact it was pretty bland and boring mostly. Mods fixed that though.

Even if something sells and has a lot of mainstream success doesnt mean its good. It just means people know about it and its popular. By that logic Twilight is an amazing film. I doubt anyone who has seen actual amazing films would say that.

I dont completely agree about mainstream though. If millions of people like something it means that it must have qualities that attract the masses. Those are often things I dont like so mainstream games, films, music etc arent often for me. Artistically theyre usually pretty bad as well so selling well tells nothing about quality. Quantity instead of quality is often the thing with really mainstream stuff. Artistic quality and such rarely attract the majority. There are plenty of exceptions though so mainstream doesnt automatically equal bad. A movie for example can have things that attract both sides.


What I'm talking about is people talking about music groups, movies, etc, that that one guy says "oh mainstream clowns, Avatar was such a sellout" lol like, what? How does that even make any sense? "Oh Skrillex that kid is so mainstream I can't believe you like him, he's trash" Uh, lol. Yeah. Those type of people are the same type of people who talk about video games in the same regard and it's just an absurd statement. There are opinions, that's it. Everything else is people being judgmental.

It is MY opinion that Oblivion is a worse game than Morrowind. But that doesn't make anyone else's opinion less valid.
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Angus Poole
 
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:04 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:57 pm

I'll never understand people's completely irrational and certainly over-the-top pure hatred for Oblivion. I swear, it's like people thought it was the cool thing to say and eventually fooled themselves into strongly believing it based on what a few others said. How is Oblivion an embarrassment? That's one of the most foolish claims I've ever seen about it. Then again, I've seen plenty. Preferring Morrowind is fine. Calling Oblivion an embarrassment is purely wrong... opinions be damned. It's wrong.

Oblivion isn't an embarrassment... it's a disgrace. :tongue:

Interesting fact about these forums... most of the people on here, in addition to preferring Morrowind, also started with Morrowind. It's quite an expected correlation that polls have shown time and time again.

I'd say people generally prefer the game they started with.
User avatar
Céline Rémy
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:45 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:15 pm

It doesn't go both ways. Oblivion kicks Daggerfall's ass as a product and game (Here's a hint... Oblivion was finished, not rushed out the door after barely two years.) and don't go lumping together Daggerfall and Morrowind. The difference between them is far greater than any between Morrowind and Oblivion... or Daggerfall and Morrowind, for that case. As for Morrowind, it's simply because I do not feel Morrowind is a superior product. In terms of art style, it's clean, but then so is Oblivion's. In terms of setting, it's a barren rock. I far prefer Cyrodiil's natural beauty. Is it so hard for people to understand why someone might not like a drab, ash-covered rock that's a sea of brown? In terms of quest design, Morrowind simply doesn't have the variety or well-written quests of Oblivion. Nobody ever says "remember that amazing Morrowind quest", but people certainly reminisce about Whodunit? (Dark Brotherhood questline, in general), Secrets of the Ayleids, A Shadow Over Hackdirt, the Daedric shrine quests and all those other fantastic quests Oblivion has. Morrowind has a bunch of fetch quests and people have the nerve to pick on Oblivion's main quest for supposedly being repetitive while damn near every sidequest in Morrowind is repetitive and unremarkable as well as the Ashlander and Hortator quests in Morrowind. People always go on and on about more content in Morrowind... but they never actually pick out a quest and talk about how much they loved it. Quantity means nothing if it's devoid of quality... otherwise why bother playing Morrowind when you could just play Daggerfall?

People always say Oblivion's dungeons are repetitive while conveniently not realizing that Oblivion has more dungeon pieces in its construction set than Morrowind does... meaning it objectively has more variety and Oblivion's dungeons are actually on the creepy side with their own music and atmosphere. As a matter of fact, Oblivion as a whole has more soundtracks and more specialized occasions for them than Morrowind. People always mention Morrowind's skills despite several being, well, useless and I still despise Morrowind's leveling system even more than I despise Oblivion's because I've got to pick even more skills I'll never touch for my character before I can proceed with character creation while both have that stupid efficient leveling garbage. People always pick on Oblivion's level-scaling while simultaneously claiming Oblivion is too easy. Level-scaling makes Oblivion far more difficult than Morrowind. It was put in Oblivion because people complained about how easy Morrowind was practically after levels 10-15... and it's true, Morrowind is easy. I'm level 40 in Oblivion and liches still scare me... especially if with other liches or undead. It's a very flawed solution, but one made to correct Morrowind's easiness... and Morrowind is pretty easy. Not having compass symbols and following vague, sometimes downright wrong directions is not challenge... it's tedious wandering.

Finally, people always talk down Oblivion's lore when they don't even have the slightest clue about Oblivion's lore. It's contained in the following ~140 books created exclusively for Oblivion:

Spoiler

1. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Life_of_Uriel_Septim_VII
2. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Rislav_The_Righteous
3. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ahzirr_Traajijazeri
4. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_the_Fighters_Guild
5. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fire_and_Darkness
6. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Five_Tenets
7. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Followers_of_the_Gray_Fox
8. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hiding_With_the_Shadow
9. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum

10. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancer%27s_Moon
11. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pension_of_the_Ancestor_Moth
12. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar
13. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief
14. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Warrior
15. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King
16. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_1
17. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_2

18. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_3
19. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_4
20. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar_Prince
21. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Exodus
22. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Knightfall
23. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Purloined_Shadows
24. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Refugees
25. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief_of_Virtue
26. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Adabal-a

27. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings
28. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Sancre_Tor
29. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man
30. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cleansing_of_the_Fane
31. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daughter_of_the_Niben
32. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer_History_and_Culture
33. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fall_of_Vitharn
34. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Last_King_of_the_Ayleids
35. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legendary_Sancre_Tor

36. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lost_Histories_of_Tamriel
37. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada
38. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_1
39. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_2
40. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_3
41. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_4
42. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_5
43. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_6
44. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_7

45. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Treatise_on_Ayleidic_Cities
46. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Advances_in_Lock_Picking
47. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayleid_Reference_Text
48. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bark_and_Sap
49. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calcinator_Treatise
50. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:De_Rerum_Dirennis
51. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:An_Elytra%27s_Life
52. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_Frog_to_Man
53. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fundaments_of_Alchemy
54. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heavy_Armor_Repair

55. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_Lock_Picking
56. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Immortal_Blood
57. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Light_Armor_Repair
58. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Liminal_Bridges
59. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lithnilian%27s_Research_Notes
60. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Liturgy_of_Affliction
61. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Living_Woods
62. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mace_Etiquette
63. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic_from_the_Sky

64. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Armor
65. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Arms
66. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Spellcraft
67. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Xedilian
68. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Predecessors
69. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proper_Lock_Design
70. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reality_%26_Other_Falsehoods
71. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Saints_and_Seducers
72. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Apothecary

73. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Bestiary
74. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Souls,_Black_and_White
75. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Standing_Stones
76. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Daedra
77. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Way_of_the_Exposed_Palm
78. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Agnar%27s_Journal
79. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amantius_Allectus%27_Diary
80. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancotar%27s_Journal
81. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Bloody_Journal
82. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brenus_Astis%27_Journal

83. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cap%27n_Dugal%27s_Journal
84. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cindanwe%27s_Notebook
85. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dar-Ma%27s_Diary
86. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Diary_of_Springheel_Jak
87. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion
88. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Field_Journal
89. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Journal
90. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Father_of_the_Niben

91. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Frostcrag_Spire_Memoirs
92. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gelebourne%27s_Journal
93. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greywyn%27s_Journal
94. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Grommok%27s_Journal
95. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Journal_of_the_Lord_Lovidicus
96. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Log_of_the_Emma_May
97. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Path_of_Transcendence
98. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ramblings_of_Audens_Avidius
99. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Red_Kitchen_Reader

100. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sacred_Witness
101. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sir_Amiel%27s_Journal
102. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traelius%27_Journal

103. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traitor%27s_Diary
104. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Macabre_Manifest
105. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Report:_Disaster_at_Ionith
106. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West_(book)
107. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mysterium_Xarxes
108. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tome_of_Unlife
109. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Legend_of_Krately_House
110. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco,_King_of_Worms
111. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Ravings_of_Fenroy
112. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Song_of_Hrormir
113. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Black_Arts_On_Trial

114. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myth_or_Menace%3F
115. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._VI
116. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._IX
117. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._XII
118. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bible_of_the_Deep_Ones
119. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Blessings_of_Sheogorath
120. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Divining_the_Elder_Scolls
121. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heretical_Thoughts

122. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Modern_Heretics
123. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_1
124. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_2
125. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_3
126. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_4
127. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myths_of_Sheogorath
128. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Opusculus_Lamae_Bal_ta_Mezzamortie
129. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Prophet_Arden-Sul
130. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarr_and_the_Divines
131. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ten_Commands:_Nine_Divines
132. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia

133. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Glories_and_Laments
134. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Anvil
135. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bravil
136. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bruma
137. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Cheydinhal
138. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Chorrol
139. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_the_Imperial_City
140. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Leyawiin
141. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_New_Sheoth
142. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Skingrad




Everything you just said about Morrowind is your opinion, and I happily and completely disagree. Morrowinds quest were amazing, with the depth and involvement of GOING OUT IN THE WILDERNESS AND DOING STUFF while not being pointed in the direction by a huge freaking red arrow. That's a joke.

But see, that's my opinion. And that's yours, and you are entitled to it, and so am I. But that doesn't make either one of us wrong or right. I think Morrowind is a better game, you think Oblivion is.
=!=
Same thing. Each is right, because it's a personal opinion.
User avatar
Tracey Duncan
 
Posts: 3299
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:32 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:26 pm

Everything you just said about Morrowind is your opinion, and I happily and completely disagree. Morrowinds quest were amazing, with the depth and involvement of GOING OUT IN THE WILDERNESS AND DOING STUFF while not being pointed in the direction by a huge freaking red arrow. That's a joke.

But see, that's my opinion. And that's yours, and you are entitled to it, and so am I. But that doesn't make either one of us wrong or right. I think Morrowind is a better game, you think Oblivion is.
=!=
Same thing. Each is right, because it's a personal opinion.

Personal opinion is fine, but it's simply wrong to state either game is an embarrassment or a failure or something. Objectively speaking, they're both marvels of video game design and a testament to what happens when a company spends years making a game more open and more content-packed than practically all others. I'm simply responding to this:

"What I don't understand is peoples irrational fear of admitting that Oblivion really wasn't an amazing game, especially when compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall."
User avatar
Solène We
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:04 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:29 pm

Personal opinion is fine, but it's simply wrong to state either game is an embarrassment or a failure or something. Objectively speaking, they're both marvels of video game design and a testament to what happens when a company spends years making a game more open and more content-packed than practically all others. I'm simply responding to this:

"What I don't understand is peoples irrational fear of admitting that Oblivion really wasn't an amazing game, especially when compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall."

That denotes that one was indeed better, which is entirely subjective. So no, you are incorrect.
Something being better than something is a personal opinion and in the eye of the player. Subjective. So there is no "right" answer.
And I never said, ever, that Oblivion was an embarrassment. I played Oblivion about 2 hours ago. I like the game. But I like Morrowind better, by far.
Modded Morrowind with high res texture packs looks simply stunning.
User avatar
Ricky Rayner
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:13 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:48 pm

"Poll"? LOL
As if these forums represent anything other than less than 1% of Bethesdas playerbase? Come on, get real. These forums mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. These "polls" get what, 300 votes? Oblivion sold what, 3 MILLION games? Lol. Less than .01%. Means absolutely nothing.

Most people regard Morrowind a better game, art style wise and story wise. It's a given. Oblivions story was bland and predictable. The landscape was generic and boring. Morrowind>Oblivion.

That's funny. I think Morrowind is the worst game in the series by far. It was gutted terribly coming off of Daggerfall and that's what i'll remember first and foremost about Morrowind. Dumbed down from Daggerfall.
User avatar
Luis Reyma
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:10 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:12 pm

While Morrowind has it's highs, so does Oblivion. There's pros and cons to both of them. I prefer Oblivion, but that's just me.

There's a lot of nostalgia for some over Morrowind, and I think that leads to some elitist opinions.

This mainstream stuff is ridiculous. Being Mainstream doesn't mean it's bad. If it's bad because of it's own merit, then fine, but if it's a good game, there's nothing wrong with it being mainstream.

And to be honest, I don't need to put on my Ray-Bans to play Morrowind.

Getting back to the subject matter, I think Skryim will sell well because of how mainstream it is. That has no effect on how I'll view the game though.
User avatar
Alyce Argabright
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:11 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:06 pm

I liked Daggerfall the most, at least initially: First game I ever played where I could be a demon-killing naked catgirl without having to change the game files in any way.
User avatar
Soku Nyorah
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:25 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:23 pm

I liked Daggerfall the most, at least initially: First game I ever played where I could be a demon-killing naked catgirl without having to change the game files in any way.

Yea Daggerfall is my favorite of the series. Then came Morrowind and it was dumbed down and gutted.
User avatar
gemma
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:10 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:20 pm

Yea Daggerfall is my favorite of the series. Then came Morrowind and it wad dumbed down and gutted.

How is Oblivion/Skyrim any different? They've been removing stuff since Daggerfall, and not adding much back.
User avatar
Amy Smith
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:38 pm

That denotes that one was indeed better, which is entirely subjective. So no, you are incorrect.
Something being better than something is a personal opinion and in the eye of the player. Subjective. So there is no "right" answer.
And I never said, ever, that Oblivion was an embarrassment. I played Oblivion about 2 hours ago. I like the game. But I like Morrowind better, by far.
Modded Morrowind with high res texture packs looks simply stunning.

Backing up, I thought this discussion originated when I responded to someone implying that Oblivion was an embarrassment with my "I'll never understand this irrational hatred..." line. Then you used a similar line to question why people don't accept what you stated to be an inevitable fact of Oblivion as if in response to my statement. I replied towards your claim by listing why your claim was incorrect and that I was not in some state of denial, but rather had my genuine reasons for personally preferring Morrowind (although I did use facts in my discussion... Oblivion's quest design and variety is objectively better and simply meatier, for example, and then I stated my personal preference for quality quest design over quantity quest design and Oblivion does have the lore I listed... contrary to popular belief about Oblivion being lore-less) and then you retorted with a personal opinion is fine claim after claiming I, or rather others who prefer Oblivion, were in a state of denial and/or fear of admitting some falsely claimed fact about Oblivion simply not being amazing in comparison to Morrowind or Daggerfall. Is that how you perceived what was going on or am I alone, here?
User avatar
Lifee Mccaslin
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:03 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:37 am

Yep. Morrowind was a dumbed down gutted Daggerfall, just like Oblivion was a dumbed down gutted Morrowind.
Anyone who denies this is..misinformed.
User avatar
Rob Smith
 
Posts: 3424
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:30 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:34 pm

How is Oblivion/Skyrim any different? They've been removing stuff since Daggerfall, and not adding much back.

Morrowind started the gutting. Don't get me wrong, I like Morrowind and love TES. It's my favorite series of all time. Morrowind is just my least favorite of the series.
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Christie Mitchell
 
Posts: 3389
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:44 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:14 pm

Morrowind started the gutting. Don't get me wrong, I like Morrowind and love TES. It's my favorite series of all time. Morrowind is just my least favorite of the series.

Morrowind didn't "start" anything, Bethesda did. The same people who gutted Oblivion, and who have gutted Skyrim from the features we love from the previous games.
User avatar
tiffany Royal
 
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:48 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:53 am

and whats your point? i didnt direct any hate towards him. that would be bethesda's decision. for all i care he wasnt the lead designer of morrowind but he was the lead designer of oblivion and morrowind is a better game.

He was the project leadfor Morrowind, and Adventures. That's a pretty big role too.
User avatar
Rowena
 
Posts: 3471
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:40 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:49 pm

Morrowind didn't "start" anything, Bethesda did. The same people who gutted Oblivion, and who have gutted Skyrim from the features we love from the previous games.

Ok. Point being the dumbing down started with Morrowind.
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Laura-Jayne Lee
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:35 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:30 pm

Morrowind didn't just 'gut' Daggerfall: It greatly improved many aspects, such as the way armor was handled, so you could chose between a light-armored thief, heavy-armored warrior, or medium-armored scout, and it made all three armor types relevant throughout the game: In Daggerfall, only Heavy Armor could be enchanted, or came in any quality for that matter... instead of having heavily-armored thieves, you could wear scaling light armors in Morrowind. It also made it possible to forego armor entirely (Something I miss in Oblivion). It greatly fleshed out the lore of the games (Completely rewriting Khajiit and Argonian lore), and made race actually matter (As opposed to Daggerfall's "No difference between races, except High Elves are always immune to Paralysis, even if they are critically weak against it")... It also added several new weapon types: Throwing weapons, spears, crossbows, etc. It also made the guild questlines meaningful, at a major cost/disappointment though: the ability to decline and get new quests in Daggerfall was awesome.

Oblivion reverted to Daggerfall in a lot of ways: The dungeons became large, dynamic, and interactive again - lots of levers, switches, buttons, traps that didn't exist in Daggerfall... cool stuff! It also brought back lots of meaningless factions, such as knightly orders. The Expansions/DLC brought back even more Daggerfall, including the Good counterpart of one of the factions directly from Daggerfall: The Knights of the True Horn. Oblivion also brought back several other things from Daggerfall: Elven and Mithril quality weapons and armor, several text references to "The Warp in the West," awesomely annoying Impressively Armored city guards.

Unfortunately, it didn't bring back Daggerfall's amazing books (Such as The Epic of the Grey Falcon) nor the crime and justice system. Nor did it give us a new a bawdy song about scandalous behavior in Cyrodiil :(
User avatar
Theodore Walling
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:54 am

talk about opinions roflmao. "better game"

by stating "aka by firing todd howard" means that you are planning and thinking about a decision. :facepalm:

Todd is immune to economical shifts, and will therefore never be fired.

Also, the last time I saw your avatar was around 4 years ago on the Infinity Ward forums. Nostalgia is rushing me right now.
User avatar
Chloe Lou
 
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:08 am

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:17 pm

It doesn't go both ways. Oblivion kicks Daggerfall's ass as a product and game (Here's a hint... Oblivion was finished, not rushed out the door after barely two years.) and don't go lumping together Daggerfall and Morrowind. The difference between them is far greater than any between Morrowind and Oblivion... or Daggerfall and Morrowind, for that case. As for Morrowind, it's simply because I do not feel Morrowind is a superior product. In terms of art style, it's clean, but then so is Oblivion's. In terms of setting, it's a barren rock. I far prefer Cyrodiil's natural beauty. Is it so hard for people to understand why someone might not like a drab, ash-covered rock that's a sea of brown? In terms of quest design, Morrowind simply doesn't have the variety or well-written quests of Oblivion. Nobody ever says "remember that amazing Morrowind quest", but people certainly reminisce about Whodunit? (Dark Brotherhood questline, in general), Secrets of the Ayleids, A Shadow Over Hackdirt, the Daedric shrine quests and all those other fantastic quests Oblivion has. Morrowind has a bunch of fetch quests and people have the nerve to pick on Oblivion's main quest for supposedly being repetitive while damn near every sidequest in Morrowind is repetitive and unremarkable as well as the Ashlander and Hortator quests in Morrowind. They also conveniently forget Morrowind's main quest really is every bit as linear. So much for replayability. People always go on and on about more content in Morrowind... but they never actually pick out a quest and talk about how much they loved it. Quantity means nothing if it's devoid of quality... otherwise why bother playing Morrowind when you could just play Daggerfall?

People always say Oblivion's dungeons are repetitive while conveniently not realizing that Oblivion has more dungeon pieces in its construction set than Morrowind does... meaning it objectively has more variety and Oblivion's dungeons are actually on the creepy side with their own music and atmosphere. As a matter of fact, Oblivion as a whole has more soundtracks and more specialized occasions for them than Morrowind. People always mention Morrowind's skills despite several being, well, useless and I still despise Morrowind's leveling system even more than I despise Oblivion's because I've got to pick even more skills I'll never touch for my character before I can proceed with character creation while both have that stupid efficient leveling garbage. People always pick on Oblivion's level-scaling while simultaneously claiming Oblivion is too easy. Level-scaling makes Oblivion far more difficult than Morrowind. It was put in Oblivion because people complained about how easy Morrowind was practically after levels 10-15... and it's true, Morrowind is easy. I'm level 40 in Oblivion and liches still scare me... especially if with other liches or undead. It's a very flawed solution, but one made to correct Morrowind's easiness... and Morrowind is pretty easy. Not having compass symbols and following vague, sometimes downright wrong directions is not challenge... it's tedious wandering.

Finally, people always talk down Oblivion's lore when they don't even have the slightest clue about Oblivion's lore. It's contained in the following ~140 books created exclusively for Oblivion:

Spoiler

1. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Life_of_Uriel_Septim_VII
2. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Rislav_The_Righteous
3. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ahzirr_Traajijazeri
4. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_the_Fighters_Guild
5. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fire_and_Darkness
6. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Five_Tenets
7. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Followers_of_the_Gray_Fox
8. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hiding_With_the_Shadow
9. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum

10. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancer%27s_Moon
11. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pension_of_the_Ancestor_Moth
12. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar
13. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief
14. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Warrior
15. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King
16. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_1
17. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_2

18. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_3
19. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Argonian_Account,_Book_4
20. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Beggar_Prince
21. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Exodus
22. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Knightfall
23. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Purloined_Shadows
24. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Refugees
25. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thief_of_Virtue
26. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Adabal-a

27. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings
28. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Sancre_Tor
29. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man
30. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cleansing_of_the_Fane
31. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daughter_of_the_Niben
32. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer_History_and_Culture
33. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fall_of_Vitharn
34. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Last_King_of_the_Ayleids
35. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legendary_Sancre_Tor

36. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lost_Histories_of_Tamriel
37. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada
38. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_1
39. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_2
40. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_3
41. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_4
42. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_5
43. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_6
44. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_7

45. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Treatise_on_Ayleidic_Cities
46. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Advances_in_Lock_Picking
47. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayleid_Reference_Text
48. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bark_and_Sap
49. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calcinator_Treatise
50. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:De_Rerum_Dirennis
51. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:An_Elytra%27s_Life
52. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_Frog_to_Man
53. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fundaments_of_Alchemy
54. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heavy_Armor_Repair

55. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_Lock_Picking
56. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Immortal_Blood
57. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Light_Armor_Repair
58. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Liminal_Bridges
59. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lithnilian%27s_Research_Notes
60. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Liturgy_of_Affliction
61. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Living_Woods
62. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mace_Etiquette
63. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic_from_the_Sky

64. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Armor
65. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Arms
66. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Spellcraft
67. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manual_of_Xedilian
68. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Predecessors
69. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proper_Lock_Design
70. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reality_%26_Other_Falsehoods
71. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Saints_and_Seducers
72. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Apothecary

73. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Bestiary
74. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Souls,_Black_and_White
75. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Standing_Stones
76. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Daedra
77. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Way_of_the_Exposed_Palm
78. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Agnar%27s_Journal
79. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amantius_Allectus%27_Diary
80. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancotar%27s_Journal
81. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Bloody_Journal
82. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brenus_Astis%27_Journal

83. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cap%27n_Dugal%27s_Journal
84. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cindanwe%27s_Notebook
85. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dar-Ma%27s_Diary
86. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Diary_of_Springheel_Jak
87. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion
88. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Field_Journal
89. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drothan%27s_Journal
90. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Father_of_the_Niben

91. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Frostcrag_Spire_Memoirs
92. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gelebourne%27s_Journal
93. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greywyn%27s_Journal
94. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Grommok%27s_Journal
95. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Journal_of_the_Lord_Lovidicus
96. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Log_of_the_Emma_May
97. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Path_of_Transcendence
98. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ramblings_of_Audens_Avidius
99. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Red_Kitchen_Reader

100. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sacred_Witness
101. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sir_Amiel%27s_Journal
102. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traelius%27_Journal

103. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Traitor%27s_Diary
104. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Macabre_Manifest
105. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Report:_Disaster_at_Ionith
106. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West_(book)
107. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mysterium_Xarxes
108. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tome_of_Unlife
109. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Legend_of_Krately_House
110. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco,_King_of_Worms
111. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Ravings_of_Fenroy
112. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Song_of_Hrormir
113. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Black_Arts_On_Trial

114. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myth_or_Menace%3F
115. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._VI
116. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._IX
117. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._XII
118. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bible_of_the_Deep_Ones
119. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Blessings_of_Sheogorath
120. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Divining_the_Elder_Scolls
121. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heretical_Thoughts

122. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Modern_Heretics
123. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_1
124. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_2
125. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_3
126. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_4
127. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myths_of_Sheogorath
128. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Opusculus_Lamae_Bal_ta_Mezzamortie
129. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Prophet_Arden-Sul
130. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarr_and_the_Divines
131. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ten_Commands:_Nine_Divines
132. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia

133. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Glories_and_Laments
134. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Anvil
135. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bravil
136. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bruma
137. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Cheydinhal
138. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Chorrol
139. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_the_Imperial_City
140. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Leyawiin
141. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_New_Sheoth
142. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Skingrad




+1, Like, have a cookie and every other internet reward there is because that is excellent.

What I disliked about Morrowind was the incredibly awkward and slow movement, the pallet of grey and brown that pervades 90% of the game and the squint worthy UI.
Oblivion also had problems but they weren't as much a part of the core experience. The level scaling doesn't make sense when you think about it but I didn't even notice it on my first playthrough.
User avatar
brandon frier
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:47 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:19 pm

The level scaling doesn't make sense when you think about it but I didn't even notice it on my first playthrough.

Me neither, but once I realized how broken the game was I could never play vanilla again.
User avatar
Kevin S
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:50 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:41 pm

Skyrim will earn Beth a profit, as to how much that's up in the air.

Me neither, but once I realized how broken the game was I could never play vanilla again.

Yeah the level scaling in Oblivion is a huge problem I basically max level at 25 and don't bother going any higher. I don't see the point, extra health isn't going to make that much of a difference.
User avatar
clelia vega
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:04 pm

Post » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Yeah I'm hoping Beth learned a lesson in that level scaling fiasco. That was one of the brighter points of Morrowind, being able to enter this dungeon and getting your butt kicked because it was too high level just then. Oblivion was a great game, made even better by mods. The visuals and the combat/physics are what shadowed over the lesser aspects of the game for me, when the good mods started coming out..well nothing was wrong with Oblivion anymore. With Morrowind on the other hand, I could really play the vanilla game without any problem. (I can and do with Oblivion as well if I play on the 360, but if I play it on the PC it doesn't feel right being vanilla) And really Morrowind will always hold a nostalgic place in my heart, it was my introduction to the series, my introduction to RPG's more or less and what brought me to these forums.
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YO MAma
 
Posts: 3321
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:24 am

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