But now we can't afford the Spell Creation Fun Run (or Waddle'N'Wheeze for people like me).


On-topic: It seems Bethesda has kind of lost its touch. Skyrim doesn't feel magical like all of their previous games.

And I am glad that every single one of those people is relegated to internet forums and has no actual power in the outcome of the games. Last thing I'd want to see for Elder Scrolls is for the series to take a direction towards their wishes.

Don't worry, you will keep your action adventure for years to come.

Yes, because everything Skyrim (your admitted love child) has plus more, would be so terrible.

Where's the action adventure game you speak of?

I'm playing a deep and complex RPG in Skyrim. What game are you talking about?

You cant be playing Skyrim then, if youre playing a 'deep and complex' RPG.
Dont make me laugh.
Everything deep and complex has been removed, its now pick up n play.

Nope. You're wrong.

But I'm not having this argument with you -again-. You've already proven that you're too stubborn to accept what's right in front of your face, even if it is an objective fact.

Your opinion isn't a fact.

Not true at all. I never get the power armor. In fact I hate it. And I never once felt forced to do anything in FO3, especially the main quest. I've played around in the FO3 world for many many hours without doing anything pertaining to the main story line. Same with Skyrim. I'm over 180 hours in now and have yet to finish either of the main quest lines.

Neither is yours.

But you know what is fact?

The fact that the things that Attributes did are still in the game. The fact that skills now offer you more choice now than they ever did before. The fact that the world is more detailed than ever before. The fact that the magic mechanics now offer spell effects and casting styles that weren't offered before.

Those are facts.

Don't like the implementation? That is an opinion. And perfectly valid.

But to say the game lacks depth and complexity because you don't like how it's done now is absolutely false, and absurd.

Nope, everything attributes effected in previous games are not in Skyrim. Fact. Its also a fact that they took away more from magic than they added.

Um... yes, everything attributes effects in previous games are in Skyrim. Fact.

And they added MORE period than what they took out period. Boo hoo, you can't combine spells at an altar anymore because Spellmaking wouldn't function properly within the game's mechanics. They still added more than they removed. Fact.

Yet they aren't, and its been stated since pre release to you specifically numerous times what these variables that are not, or wouldn't be in Skyrim without attributes.

Then you abandoned rational argument.

Now you're lying just a bit there. I know because I played countless hours of NV too and you can't tell me you didn't run into barriers everywhere because they are simply everywhere. It is a very small game world and the actual play area doesn't come anywhere close to the edges of the map as it is presented. There are also numerous barriers within the boundries of the map and not all of them are on mountain tops. There are some that were place solely for the purpose of guiding the player along a specific path. That's why a lot of people think of it as a more linear game. Also the main quest line takes you to nearly every location on the map also contributing to that linear feeling. And as I said before, free exploration in NV often led to broken quests when you did something out of order. And honestly you can't blame the console owners for problems with the game. That falls squarely on the shoulders of the developers. They released it for the console, it should work on the console.

I'm hurt that you don't like my suggestions, I always drum the "Options! Options for everyone!" and never tried to barre anyone from enjoying the game or making things overly difficult. I am sad that from your standpoint it seems Nell, that you do not Like Options and Choices provided by the game rather than your inconsequential mental machinations.

And yet, it feels bigger than Skyrim. I guess that's what shallow NPCs and guilds does to a game.

Oh wow this again.
It is just manifestly untrue.
Im not going to give the myriads of examples again that without a shadow of a doubt show that the things attributes did are gone, because attributes are gone.
You call me stubborn, yet you are reminiscent of those that against all knowledge and sense claim the world is flat.
The world is not more detailed than before, in fact this is the first TES game where I find that things are just glued to the table and cannot be picked up.
The loss of options and customisation is staggering.
Skyrim, compared even to Oblivion, is a shallow and vapid game.
I dont really understand why you feel the need to insist that black is white and left is right but I can assure you that a career in politics is right up your alley with a truth-bending mentality like that.

You are so stubborn aren't you?

Me: "This color is blue"
You: "No, it's red"
Me: "???"

The color: Navy Blue. But you prefer Royal Blue so you refuse to accept that it is blue.

Let's do this one more time, shall we? And then after that, I am putting you on ignore and not continuing this conversation with you anymore (you've already shown your true colors by resorting to calling people "newbs" because they don't agree with you and see things your way)

Strength = Melee damage, Encumbrance, and Fatigue
Melee damage is now in melee weapon perks, encumbrance is now tied to Stamina, and you put points directly into Stamina.

Endurance = Health gain and Fatigue
Now you just invest points directly into health and Stamina.

Intelligence = Magicka pool
Now you just invest points directly into Magicka.

Willpower = Magicka regen and spell absorbtion
Now there are perks for magicka regen and spell absorbtion.

Agility = Bow damage and staggering
Now bow damage is effected by Archery perks, and there are perks that decrease staggering.

Personality = How people respond to you
Now there are perks that determine your success when using diplomacy on people.

Speed = How fast you run
There is no direct "speed" variable in Skyrim, but a higher Stamina allows you to sprint farther than a lower Stamina, thus being a different take on character speed. Not a lack of depth or removal of features, just a different implementation.

Luck = A little bit of everything, as well as increasing your chance of finding more gold and treasures in chests.
Now there are perks that allow you to find more gold and treasures in chests.

All of the effects still remain - thus, the depth and complexity still remains.

That is an objective fact.

You don't like the current implementation. You prefer Attributes.

That is a subjective opinion. A valid one.

The content, depth, and complexity remains, and that is an objective fact. You refuse to accept -facts- because you don't like facts. But the -facts- are, "depth" and "complexity" were not removed. The choice you had is still there, it is just a different way of going about it.

And now back to the ignore list with you.

Well if youre going to copy/paste the same old tripe that numerous people have adequately deconstructed already,
and if youre then going to go all toddler who sticks his fingers in his ears and goes na-na-na! with your ignore list then I feel no need to remain civil and blow a great big raspberry at you and your truth-twisting mentality.

:prffft:

Meanwhile everything you stated in your previous post is wrong, manifestly and objectively wrong, as already has been shown the first time you printed that.. that.. political manifesto.

I don't want Attributes because I prefer Perks over Attributes. -No, that is not a matter of "Attributes AND Perks", they are various implementations of doing the same thing, and I do not want the series to regress back to Attributes. Perks are far superior in every way.

I don't miss Spellmaking, simply because it's "depth" is overblown, it didn't allow things that couldn't already be done (it allowed a customized way of doing them, which was fine, but it didn't allow for new options that weren't already there), and quite frankly, when looking at it deeply, Spellmaking as we've known it would not function with the current game mechanics. Limiting it as much as it would need to be to work would end up making it the same as equipping 2 different spells and casting them, which we already have, and outside of some missing spell effects, the -system- we have now is superior to what we had before. I don't want to see the game regress to old, out dated mechanics to support a Spellmaking system that didn't offer that much anyways.

So yes, when these "options" infringe on the advances the series has made, you are correct, I do not want those "options".

The things removed from the game were replaced with deeper and more complex replacements. In an "either / or" scenario, I prefer Skyrim's direction in virtually every aspect that we have over what we did have, as it offers more than what we were offered in the past, and things aren't always as simple as "well we can have both".

Didn't say a thing about Attributes or Spell making, nor did I say I want them exactly as they were in past games, but thanks for the fish you still hurt myfeelings, you're a mean person. don't know why you're so opposed when the system is no different from its past interations with "combined" spell effects and 2 new delivery methods. even when things like Enchanting are exactly the same as they were in the past and smithing is just a menu, yeah "depth" gj.

again meany. Skyrim's not really doing anything new if you actually LOOK at it, but oh well.

You haven't been "civil" for quite some time, I can already think of a couple instances where you've been rude and disrespectful towards others for not sharing your opinion.

And no, nobody has proven anything I've said "wrong".

These things are factually in the game. You are whining and crying that they are not, when they explicitly are.

And if people like you and Erandur are not willing to even pay attention to the things that are blatantly in front of your face, and cannot accept truth and reality, then my ignore list is the only place you belong, because there's no point having a conversation with you.

You will continue to argue that the skies aren't blue and grass isn't green just because you don't like the shade.

I guess you're just colorblind then eh?

Love your SIG, TODD is really the problem, but they won t boot him, his shoddy work and lies to customer base bring too muc money to the company.

Todd's son, wanted to play TES, but it was too hard for him.