I'm aware not everyone needs this, but it would be completely optional and easy to implement so please bear with me...

Quests used to be fully defined as in you had actual journal entries. They would explain who you met, whay they wanted you to do and why, and how you should get to the objective. Oblivion still had them (sort of) but they've been further minized in Skyrim.

Now quests are just one or two lines saying nothing more than:

Go kill X at Y

Go steal X at y

Etc.

You can deactivate the quest-marker and look up the location on your map. But it isn't the same experience. I prefer a fully developed journal entry that has you then search for the location. With Skyrim's high level of detail it shouldnt be hard to follow instructions on how to get somewhere.

And the great thing is, Bethesda doesn't have to choose. They can still include the quest-marker for those that prefer it. Just make it optional in the option menu. But right now it isn't, and quest objectives arent always clear enough to just ignore the quest-marker. So I still use the quest-marker and as a result the way I experience the world is less fun for me.

This is just something I experienced in Oblivion and Skyrim, and again I know this isn't an issue for everyone. If it was a hard thing to implement than I wouldnt complain about it. I'm aware Bethesda needs things like the quest-marker to stay profitable these days. But since it is easy to implement, I dont see why Bethesda can't please both the new and the old fans.

Ergo: we all benefit.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. I'm not talking about adding it to Skyrim, Skyrim is done and a great game. I'm talking about bringing it back in future installments.

would never happen, because then the target market gamer will have to stop and read something.

It`s called `dumbing down` unfortunately.

I suppose Bethesda believe people want to read as little as possible now.

But you`re right the descriptions are woefully sparse now. Too few.

They wouldn't have to read. The quest-marker would still be there and on top of the actual quest description could still be a small line saying 'kill X at Y'.

So both kind of players wcd enjoy this system, and Bethesda wouldn't have to spend a great deal of time on it. So we would al benefit.

I often resort to the wiki to find out what quests with two word descriptions that have been sitting in my journal for a while were about. Many of them are things like a two word instruction "Locate X". There is no where, who for, and why info with them, just two words and a quest arrow.

nah that would mean extra clicking or, more clutter in the journal!

Only if you wanted to read more. If you're satisfied with the immediatly available: 'kill X at Y' than you wouldn't have to click anywhere.

Right now people have to use a laptop or tablet (or phone in my case) to get the extra information they need to play the way they used to play.

Besides some people like to dwell around in their journal, reading up on things they've done as well as how they did it.

It is a choice thing. If you don't want to use it then ignore it.

IF you hadn't noticed I was joking.....I'm all for the dismantling of the compass arrow and bringing back proper quest descriptions and directions like you had in morrowind and the others previous.

I had not notices...

Probably because there actually are people that would use such a reason to deny joy to others.

I've even seen someone say no to ideas on this board simply because they found that it was filling up the board with complains and that this place should be used to praise Bethesda. While I'm all for praising Bethesda (one of the few big yet independed developers that care for quality), I think the best way to praise them it to let them know how they could improve their games.

There is a quest description at the top of the screen when you highlight your quest. It's just as much information as you got in your Oblivion journal. It hasn't been reduced.

Quest dialogue is still detailed, if you actually pay attention to it you will get all the details that you need.

lol are you sure about that? I've seen quite a few quest givers say basically "please find x" you journal say "find X" and the only possible way you can find what your looking for is to follow the arrow, because they give no hints as to where to start looking.

I would agree that with Misc. quests, it would be very helpful to have at least an extended explanation of what it is I'm supposed to be doing. Perhaps it may be a little simpler to separate the quests into their designated origination or destination places.

In other words, if you picked up a quest in Markarth or Solitude, the quest should be located under that specific name in your quest log. Since I've arrived at Solitude, and picked up three quests, I should enter my journal and look under the heading of Solitude to find the quests.

I did mention that Oblivion also had reduces entries. However through playing Skyrim (as much as possible without quest-marker) I'm finding that the quest description has been further reduced compared to Oblivion. It isn't much shorter but it has lost just a little bit too much information, making many quests dependent on the quest-marker.

Examples: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Assassinated_Man & http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Mourning_Never_Comes

You can see that some entries have been reduced from actuak sentences to a couple of words. This makes it harder to understand what is going on and has you just follow the quest-marker. I don't need to see compleet novels, but it wouldn't hurt to add motivation to the entries.

Like: The Dark brotherhood has tasked me to kill X at Y, which is south east of Z because.... etc.

If you don't want to read then that is okay, you can still have the quest-marker. All I'm asking is that they make the quest-marker optional and make the quest description slightly longer and thus more functional for those that wish to do things without the marker. If this was as hard to add as Spears or flying mounts than I wouldnt mention it. But this isnt resource intensive so Bethesda could please both paries without much difficulty.

I'd be happy, especially with the older, miscellaneous quests, just to know WHY I should do what's listed. Visit person X in place Y? That's not particularly helpful, but I guess it made sense during development when they were just doing one quest at a time.

I totally concur with the TS.

I would like it more like Morrowind.... I'd like many things more like Morrowind and this topic applies I think. Shame it won't happen

This, quest description is so bad I managed to mess up multiple times because it contain no information, in an thief guild quest it said "talk to Vex" now as the quest popped up without being enabled I had no idea Vex was in the same room as me so I left town.
Another quest, I was told "deliver [item] to [orc name]" quest location pointed to an fortress, so I assumed I was to deliver it to somebody in the fortress.
Entered and was killed by an group of bandits, later found the item (an book) on a body.

Yes I understand it's hard to give much information about the radiant quests, however they follow an pattern, kill x at y, find x at y or find 1-10 items and bring back to z. So following string would be nice

[questgiver name] in [town or guild name] want you to [find/ kill] at [place], perhaps add type of place so you know it's killing an animal at an farm or an dungeon crawl.

Knowing the quest giver helps as you can prioritize quests.

That is basically what I'm asking for with this topic. I just like for Bethesda to rethink this 'less is more' approach they have for the journal.

Being able to disable the quest-marker would also be nice but I could also ignore it as long as the quest description is more clear.

I would prefer it if I could disable fasttravel as well and have more ingame transportation services too. But I realize that there would just be so many pros and cons to adding and removing these features. Bethesda wouldnt know who to lissen to. However in the case of the quest description it is a win-win situation. If you dont want to read the entire journal then use the quest-marker. If you do want to read then do so.

I dunno about you guys but I actually listen to the quest dialogue when it's given to me; the journal is purely an aide memoire.

Do away with quest markers and journals altogether!

I miss my journal

Skyrim will most likely be my last TES game unless Bethesda do a complete u-turn.

I lissen to it as well, but I don't always have time to do all quests right away. Sometimes you pick up 5 quests in a row and only have time to do one of them. When I get back to the game I'd like to read up on what I was doing.

You don't use quest markers and the journal, so it doesnt matter to you if they are there or not, does it?

But to others it does, which is why I made this topic.

It is easy to add and greatly increases the enjoyment for some of us. It is win-win, unless someone who doesnt use it is deliberatly against is because they dont want others to have fun. Who here happens to be such a Grinch?

ok litterally some of the quests I've gotten are dialogue wise are "Would you help me find x items?" Now tell me how does listening to that help me find out where the item is?

whoa... I don't even feel that strongly about it.

But I do understand how you're feeling. The way you experience quests (which is a core competence of the game, along with freeroaming and dungeons) is greatly effected by some seemingly small changes. Bethesda can easily reverse this trend and please both kind of gamers. I think it isnt their intention to ruin or fun, they just arent aware how strong some of us feel about it. Hopefully this topic gets their attention.

how about they just do the bloomin descriptions and put in an option to use the quest marker or not.

marker no = no description

marker yes = quest description.

skyrim was hand crafted so im sure they could of done this pretty easily.

on the other hand though in a way having a map with a marker is a little more realistic, if i sent someone somewhere i would mark it on a map or give them google maps and in the old days they would of marked the map....meh i'd prefer no quest marker and the options i suggested above would be my preference that way if you have spent an hour or so looking for a mine/cave like in morrowind and have gotten fed-up you can easily turn this on and find it in a jiffy!

alternatly they could place a red ring around the ''area'' where its located so it gives the direction but it could be anyway in that circle high or low...

luckily im on PC so hopefully a mod will come out for this sort of thing.

I'd consider those kinds of quests to either be the boring filler 'Radiant' quests or quests that would have been, back in the olden days, jolly hard to do because the item could be literally anywhere.

If it's a type 1 then I'd rather it not have a unique entry, as the repeatable radiant quests can come thick and fast and would rapidly make a mess of the journal, better that they're confined to the minimalistic misc category. If it's type 2, well, type 2 no longer exists thanks to quest markers.


Yep, that's me.

No, actually, I do use the journal and quest markers. And I certainly don't have a problem with more information in the journal, so long as it doesn't clutter it up. I only had one small, incy wincy problem. The suggestion that adding MORE information to the journal, requiring LESS attention to detail from the player constitutes a reversal of the 'dumbing down'. My earlier post was a straw man attempting to show how one would actually go about reversing the dumbing down, in my view. I have no problem with adding more pretty fluff and lore, I always like lore and things to read, but to suggest that giving that extra information to the player on a platter whenever they want it somehow expects more of the player than the current system just seems off to me.