Very much so. One of the largest empires ever and the biggest of its time.

There turd not fleshed out and have a very bad karma level.And they dress in homo skirts and rub each other up with healing powder while spearing children :goodjob: .

I say bring them back, they were something unique and new. Even though I'm more behind the BoS and NCR I enjoyed my Legion play-through.

I simply called them villains, because they the main villains of NV, only difference is you can join them this time.

Three out of four main questlines have them as the main villains, so I think its safe to call them the villain of NV.

Yes, but the Legion are based on them and the romans annihilated other cultures, slaved entire nations, violated and practice crimes against woman and yet people have high opinions of them, that's the point.

Problem is, Legion is poorly implemented in the game, given the impression they are an slavery and brutal faction who gives nothing in return when conquering lands.
That's the whole point of the Legion in NV, you only have the black and white perspective, the rest is from our imagination, unlike House, Yes Man, NCR or the Followers of the Apocalypse.

Meanwhile, CL will happily make more and more war because they tolerate no one else. Subjugation and forced assimilation are the only options. Sounds like a good recipe for heaps more war as well, until you've crushed everyone within reach. I suppose if you only identify with the victor, thats not a problem - but that's really what CL is all about.

Other societies are splintered by corrupt individuals pursuing their own goals. CL on the other hand is all about power-drunk top echelons exercising their power over everyone else and rewriting history. The ends justify the means, and i'm not convinced they even have noble ends in the 1st place.

Less rather than more like this
It was militaristic and had an economy based on slavery but it also valued art, philosophy, culture etc

The Roman Empire was also the "modern" and advanced nation of their time and not the backwards horde barbarians trying to rain on everyone's parade.

IMO a more appropriate comparison is the NCR = The Roman Empire ; CL = The Huns, Pontus, Visigoths, etc.

Im not sure you follow. They force enslaved women taken against their will to have six with who ever they say. "Breeding stock"

Maybe you should go talk to the female slave at Caesers Camp again.
The one that gives you healing powder. She ll tell you all about it.
She paints an even worse picture than me.

The Romans took men and women as slaves. Romen women were held in a much higher light than breeding stock. Romen citizens were free so to say. Ceasers legion is a nation of slaves.

I ve seen many groups in fallout. From pure tribals to men in power armour with plasma rifles, and CL are the only ones dumb enough to cut out half their population and deem them " breeding stock "

There are not enough people around to do such a thing. Not only is it pure evil its pure stupidity as well. A woman will shoot someone in the head same as a man. As cl can see from they female ranger that is killing vet scrubs with her bare hands, once trained women can also be effective killers in other ways as well.

They have no excuse.. Caeser was a Follower, and he knows better.

I think they should definitely come back. Hopefully not on the battle front but in an average CL town. We can't say which ending will be the canon one, but I'm thinking if they ARE brought back, Caesar will be dead and they are run by someone new. It'll be interesting to see how CL runs with Edward no longer as leader. I hope for less NCR and more friendliness towards Caesar's Legion :tops:.

Also, It's bad to compare The Roman Empire to Caesar's Legion. Because Caesar's Legion treat's their slaves much, much, much harsher then most Romans did.

See, you're looking at this with a modern day perspective and that is not how to do it.

Slavery? Do you even know how widespread slavery actually is in Fallout? Not to mention even the NCR used to practice slavery. Even living under NCR rule isn't that much better than mere slavery.

And women? Women in CL can't join the army so that by default ensures them a low rank in their society (Slave), but they do it to ensure future generations in CL. And be real here, how long is it exactly women got their rights in our own society? Think about it.




Who knows what exactly would happen to the Legion once they get their "Pax Romano".




How would you know? You haven't seen their society, let alone a single town.

I don't want to see the Legion back because they are pretty much cardboard villains. They enslave women, their army is pretty much a slave army (most of the soldiers are brainwashed from child-birth), they shun technology and medicine in favor for over the top brutal methods, their battle tactics are primitive compared to the actual Ancient Roman Legion.

I don't like the NCR, but at least they are not cardboard good guys, yes they are trying to keep the "peace" but at the cost of massive corruption and ineffeciency.

This is why I like the Enclave and Brotherhood. There is a lot of gray area. The Enclave does horrific things, but in the name of science, and their technology is unmatched. Their means can be argued to be "good", but it can be argued the ends don't justify the means.

The Brotherhood are not heroes and they are not villains either. To call them either - or, would be to be ignorant of their lore. They are trying to protect themselves by collecting technology and preserving it, they are soldiers on a mission. Their primary mission goes to the point where all they care about it getting tech, they don't recruit or get involved with outsiders unless absolutely necessary. They have no interest in oppressing you or conquest, and they are pretty much harmless.

Why do people say this? You obviously know nothing of Ancient Rome if you believe slaves were treated well.

So good technology makes you a good person? I'm not even gonna go there.

I'd agree that Legion slaves aren't neccessarily treated worse than most Roman slaves. Cato the Elder, a much admired figure in the Roman Republic .

Theres a misconception that slaves in the Roman Empire were better off because people sometimes sold themeslves into slavery and slaves sometimes bought their freedom. This was only really true for household slaves and those with especially valuable skills like tutors or scribes. The vast majority of Roman slaves were agricultural workers and were treated like animals.

Then again I don't agree that looking at it through modern eyes is wrong. It was along and hard fight to end slavery, win emancipation for women etc. A society that forgets all that loses the right to call itself civilised IMO.

edit: And I distrust all societies, causes etc that say it will be worthwhile in the long run, its for the good of everybody that some must suffer etc. Doesn't tend to work out that way. Utopia, Pax Romano whatever keeps getting delayed

I love how you pretty much ignored everything else I wrote.

The fact is the Legion IS a cardboard cut-out villains. They are slavers with a slave army and have no goal besides endless conquest and oppression.

Not even Caesar's "synthesis of thesis and antithesis" speech could convince me otherwise.

You said the Enclave were grey. They attack anybody on sight in Fallout 3, yet you don't consider them "cardboard cut-out villains"?

lulz

They do it in the name of science, They don't do it for the hell of it. Their goals are noble, but the means to those goals are obviously not good.

Science? lolwut

So you simply chose to ignore what Caesar had to say? That doesn't sound a whole lot better now does it? And it's simply a fact that Caesar's Legion is "evil"? Disregarding that arguing moral is kind of silly, if not, stupid I'm glad to see it's not up for debate because you stated it as an actual fact.

If the Legion does come back, I want much more gray area or else I never want to see them again.

If they make the Legion from a tribe into an actual civilization that respects it's citizens and not slaves, I could forgive their unending bloodthirst for conquest. I also want to see Legion soldiers more combat effective, able to ambush, centurians going into a battle frenzy, endless formations of troops that will make the enemy run or die.

I think if the Legion actually borrowed military lore from Norseman from the middle ages and actual Roman Legion history, they can be fleshed out better.

I'd say the Legion is fairly gray if you'd just look into what they've accomplished and what Caesar's ultimate goal is. Turning the Legion into a prospering civilization is exactly what he wants to do, but he needs his pax romano first.

And you as well as I should know that you can't implement such things with this poor engine.

I agree. With a skyrum engine, the legion has the potential to flesh out their lore. The Legion needs a lot more polishing, I simply can't accept more of the same.

NCR butchers whole villages, enslaves anyone they don't gut or crucify, treat women as pvssyl and built and entire "society" around brutality, cruelty and ignorance? You're legion fanboy side is showing again.