I thought there was something foating around one of the Skyrim forums saying not to disable V-Sync as it casued all sorts of problems in the game?

Yeah, found it - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1280991-do-not-disable-vsync/

However it's debatable as to whether disabling it really does cause problems as posted here - http://www.tweakguides.com/newsarch_nov11.html - scroll down to Site Update - 20 November 2011

I will say I tried it using Tweak Guides suggestions and I got texture tearing and performance issues. Turned it back on and all is good now, so....

It has been pointed out here that, as well as Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas all have microstutter. Personally, while I read all the forums for the previous games , I don't recall any microstutter discussions. There may have been but I never read them. The reason for that, I suppose, was I never had microstutter in the earlier games.

I ran Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas on an older iMac in BootCamp which had an i7/2.6GHz CPU and an ATI Radeon 4850 mobile GPU. Those games showed no stutter when clearly according do some statements here the iMac's weaker hardware should have had performance issues. I built a PC (specs below, except it had GTX 480s). It ran Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas without microstutter, as does Skyrim now. Heck, there was no microstutter in Oblivion on my very old Mac Pro which used XEON CPUs and a bloody awful ATI Radeon X1900 XT. I doubt microstutter is related to what GPU you are using.

I accept that the game engine is causing a stutter problem for a lot of players, or more likely, the engine is in conflict with some players' hardware. As I've never seen that issue, I ask what's been different about my hardware both before and now? Somehow I doubt that GPUs (whether or not they are nVidia or AMD) are implicated. It looks more likely to be related to the CPU and we hear a lot that Skyrim is CPU-intensive.

So while the engine seems to be partly at fault, my guess is that using C2D, i3 and i5 and equivalent AMD CPUs is contributing. Note that all my experience above was with the i7 CPU — no microstutter. Maybe those using the listed CPUs are the ones with the issue. I am just guessing, but it would be nice to discover why some have microstutter and some don't. It could be the CPU.

I suspect that the devs mostly used i7 based computers or equivalent to build this game. Was the game ever tested in depth on other CPUs? Maybe Beth's Recommended System Requirements should be updated. But they wouldn't do that because it would cause lost sales. Back to you Beths, to make the engine run with lesser CPUs. They won't do that you know. At least four games are affected and they've never addressed the issue. It'll probably cost them far to much in an engine rewrite. Is the fix as simple as some suggest it is? If it was they would have fixed it.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1525127

This thread details the issue very well. It seems to be an issue that is most prominent on AMD/ATI hardware, and more specifically Crossfired setups. I have an HD 4870x2 and have had this issue since Oblivion. The only way I was ever able to play any of Bethesda's previous titles was with the aid of mods that reduced and in some cases eliminated the stuttering. At this point, I am not sure who is to blame. AMD for not producing crossfire drivers for my 4000 series card? Or Bethesda for never having fixed the synchronization issues in their engine?

Question? - Were there i7's around when Oblivion was released? Were i7's around when Fallout 3 was released? If they were, they weren't released to the public.

And though you mention the 4 games, you're obviously stuck on Skyrim and i7's. Yes, i7's were probably around during development and testing of Skyrim, but you still continue to miss the main point.... the same issue has been seen across 4 (four) consecutive games releases by Bethesda.... regardless of improved hardware!!!

It's also been pointed out, numerous times, that there are people who have higher spec'd (better systems) than you, and STILL experience the issue - http://www.sevenforums.com/gaming/198691-discuss-skyrim-50.html#post1709774 note system specs.

Sorry but you saying you don't have it casue your system is superior is like me saying is like me saying people aren't poor because I have plenty of money...... Yeah.... it sounds silly to me too

BTW....

Oblivion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion
Fallout 3 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_3
Intel quad core i7 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core

Anyway I don't think I'm going to get you to see what we're talking about, that's fine, but I do hope you re-think your logic.

@sygnus21

Do not assume I played Oblivion, &c, on older PCs with crummier CPUs. I never owned a PC until the current 'still newish' rig.

What I've said has nothing to do with when the i7 and Oblivion first went on sale. I first started with Oblivion on my old Xeon-based Mac Pro in 2007. Didn't you read my post? I was an early adopter of the first iMac that had an i7 CPU. Yep it is quite possible that i7s were not yet available for PC builders because back then Apple and Intel were in cahoots and most i7s were picked initially up by Apple. This was 2009. I moved my Oblivion to the iMac and continued a stutter free experience. The Fallouts on the iMac were just as well behaved. As I said, that iMac had a pretty ordinary graphics chip as did the even worse one on the Mac Pro but the GPU seemed to matter less than the CPU. You've assumed I started playing Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas the day they were released. You couldn't be more wrong. Why did you have to include all that rubbish? It proved nothing.

Your link showing i7 users who have microstutter... I suffered through some 75 pages there without seeing a single computer specs listing. I gave up because it was full of general Skyrim stuff. Surely you could have found a better example to support your argument? Maybe you posted the wrong link?

I really don't care if others using the i7 are 'noticing' stutter. I stated that I have never seen it — on any computer. Maybe others with i7s with stutter might not have enough RAM or there are other limitations on their PCs. IDK and IDC. I am just proposing that using the i7 probably gives players a better chance of minimising stutter. Upgrade to a i7/3GHz CPU, no O/C necessary. Also a single GTX560 and 3x2GBRAM triple channel. That should be enough. (I know zero about AMD, though.)

How certain are you that Bethesda will fix this? That is what this is all about isn't it? People want Beths to fix this because they are not prepared to address the limitations on their PC which conflict with the poor game engine. Skyrim is the fourth game using this engine. They have not fixed microstutter, they never will without a new engine. Beths mentioned performance tweaks in patch 1.5. Has the stutter gone? You tell me. If the stutter fix is so simple as one or two posts have claimed, don't you think Bethesda would have done it?

I am suggesting gamers consider upgrading to the i7 if their Skyrim's microstutter is such a problem. There is absolutely no call to attack me with a post full of erroneous assumptions simply for attempting to offer some observations and a 'possible' solution. Please stop it. Perhaps you could be gracious enough to acknowledge that I might be correct. Hope this helps.

I know for a fact that my particular brand of microstutter isn't gonna be solved by upgrading my CPU to an i7, because I know someone who has exactly the same specs as me but an i7 instead of an i3.

I'm not too sure why you're still in this thread at all Thingme: you say you don't have the problem, and weren't you sceptical that it exists at all..............?
(cba to trawl through all the previous posts to check. apologies if that wasn't you.)

It kinda comes across as trolling, to be honest.

xTx

First off, I'm not attacking you with "a post full of erroneous assumptions". What I was attempting to do was show how your logic is faulty, especially when it has been continually stated that users of i7 processors (old and new tech) have reported issue with Skyrim. That this isn't just a problem specific to Skyrim, but the last 4 games released by Bethesda. That you continue to ignore that point is confusing to me.

Also the fact that you say "I suffered through some 15 pages there without seeing a single computer specs listing" doens't make my statement un-true as many of today's systems, especially for gamers, are of the i7 variety and again, they are having issues with Skyrim. This information is out there, and no one will dispute it, well....

At any rate I'm not trying to be, nor mean to be rude, but your logic is faulty, and I'm not the only one seeing it. Anyway my debate is over with you.

Peace.

I have had the issue the whole time. So far all of the fixes I've tried have created other problems (esp. CTDs). I was about to check the Nexus for new fixes but we'll se if anything is compatible with 1.5 - having serious microstutter/hitching/whatever issues still. Afterburner/SBW helps but doesn't eliminate it.

I haven't played more than a couple of hours since 1.3 and before that almost every hours was troubleshooting something or other.

Also, I wish there was an "ignore" feature. I have never seen so many irrelevant/wasted/gloating/trolling posts on a tech support forum in my life, and it's been that way since Skyrim's release.

Other software has few if any issues. After the last few months I probably have the most-tested PC hardware outside a lab, so that ain't it.

+1 for an ignore function

Have you tried D3DOverrider to enable triple buffering? It's fixed mine and a couple of others' stuttering at least...

xTx

Mostly Ugrids but messing with an ini is potentially stretching yourself. For instance I killed my last rig running Rainbow Six Vegas with a tweaked ini and it cost me a PSU and a GPU. Anyone that thinks that you cannot destroy your own hardware just send it on over and I will destroy it to prove the point.

im definatly pleading with beth to take a look at it, yes fps limiter 60fps does help, but it doesnt remove it and its still annoying, i think they know how much we appreciate all the support they have given us, i love that they add new features, come on how many devs do that, there are a few, cd project red etc, im doin a bit of butt kissing incase you didnt notice.

While I respect the passion with which people have documented and followed this issue, I just can't see it taking priority over other issues such as fixing bugs and addressing balance. This 64Hz "bug" is something that I have rarely seen and only then when I was looking for it. You don't have to look for broken quests. You don't have to look for game difficulty imbalance or a rapidly decreasing challenge factor due to how certain skills are implemented. Engine flaws have typically been addressed by BGS in subsequent games that feature an evolved form of that engine. To expect this to change just for Skyrim and just for the vocal minority while broken quests remain plentiful and 3-4 month old promises of balance/exploit changes remain unaddressed is not very realistic.

BGS has stated that Skyrim DLC will be larger in scope than DLC for previous games. I think the best chance of Skyrim seeing a modified engine to address this issue is going to be linked to one of these DLC releases. The engine is the core of the Skyrim experience. If only a little part of it breaks, the whole game falls apart. This is likely why BGS is reluctant to make large changes to it when they don't have the time or resources to dedicate to testing it properly. This is why Microsoft doesn't like to fix bugs in explorer after a version of Windows is released. The amount of testing required to see if code changes cause regressions is staggering.

So continue to press the issue and provide documentation so people are educated and BGS knows that it needs to be addressed. But please don't complain every time an update is released and this particular issue isn't fixed. Push for a fix in the first large DLC, which will already accommodate a comprehensive test plan. This is not a fix I either want nor expect to see in an incremental update.

sorry man but that sounds so selfish, please dont ask them to fix things you want, only ask them to fix things i want, lol ,cracked me up,

I doubt a little hitching or stutter is more game breaking than someone who is stuck on a main quest or a faction series that their whole character is based around. Of course every gamers priority is on issues that affect them but I would think that the people that frequent these boards would all like to see a totally working Skyrim for all.

I've noticed microstutter enough times to google it, but the times it bothers me are usually only indoors (Dragonsreach is common). Once again, I can have a solid 60fps and still get some microstutter.

However I decided to stop caring about it and I honestly can't remember the last time I even noticed it. I get excellent performance right now with near-max settings and a texture pack.

BTW I found the "usethreaded" ini tweaks actually created stuttering issues. If you're using them and have stutter, try resetting them to =0. This may only be an issue with Phenom IIs, not sure.

If you tweak or overclock beyond the bounds of said software or hardware, than yeah, you're asking for trouble over time. That's a given. However as I stated, normal day to day use of items intended for designed purpose won't do that. BTW all my systems have been/is overclocked, and I've tweaked a few ini's in my life time, including Fallout 3 and New Vegas and I've yet to destroy any of them. Also I've never burned out a power supply (or GPU) and I've been building since 1998. Not saying it can't happen, anything's possible, but while it's a lot easier to burn out a GPU, it takes a heck of a lot to burn out a power supply. You're more likely to have an overclocked system burn out your PS than any game.

As for proving a point..... Anyone can intentionally destroy a system.


While I respect your opinion, you need to understand this issue is beyond a single game; That has spanned 4 consecutive games now. At this rate we can pretty bet we'll see it in the next Fallout or Elder Scrolls release! That's the point.

Actually, your PSU was either defective or insufficient and what happened was you just finally broke the camel's back. I would expect that your previous PSU that failed was low-quality and/or underpowered; correct me if this is wrong. Include the make & model if you do.

This is only true if you are using low-quality or underpowered power supplies(PSUs). I do tech support on another forum and we get help threads quite frequently where we find a failed PSU is to blame. We recommend only SeaSonic-manufactured power supplies becuase they are reliable and stable. This includes any PSU from SeaSonic, XFX, and Corsair (but not their CX or GX models). Yours is a high-quality AX model from Corsair and should be more than sufficient for some time to come. I would have preferred an 850 myself (I use a SeaSonic 850w 80+ Silver) but that's just because I like the headroom.

Pick a PSU from one of the above-mentioned brands with high enough wattage to handle your peak power consumption comfortably and you will not be able to kill your hardware by stressing it, with the exception of defective and/or aging components. For wattage, calculate your wattage needs with any decent online calculator (such as http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html?name=Power-Supply-Wattage-Calculator) and then ADD 40%. Do not select a PSU with less than +40% wattage. The goal here is to select a PSU that can handle your maximum power needs comfortably, meaning at less than 70% of it's stated maximum. Your PSU will depreciate with time and with environmental conditions, particularly heat. You do not want it running at 100% capacity while you game.

This is mostly for anyone else just reading since, as I stated above, the PSU you got right now is excellent.

Yes I should have mentioned it was worn(PSU) but that is the simple thing....people have HP and Dell's and they follow tweak guides or maybe go a bit too far. This is plenty enough to kill one of those systems especially if it is already a few years old. I was merely stretching the point that hardware can be killed by a user as there has been an argument flowing back and forth on these forums about that. I guess my point is A. A crappy pre built + B. A novice PC user(who would most likely own said garbage in A) + C. User misreading or overextending A using tweak guides due to bad PC support(Skyrim) = One dead prebuilt PC and one angry novice PC gamer which eventually leads to threads like "Skyrim killed my PC" or "My PC shuts of because of Skyrim etc."

In the end the sys requirements on the box for Skyrim are puffery designed to sell more copies(other companies do this as well) and it is plain wrong. Someone comes here for support and Gorath craps on their rig and that is the end of it....cmon.

Can't argue with that, especially the minimum requirements - those just say the game will start


Shouldn't be that way but sadly I've seen this too many times

It's not my opinion and it's not that I want something else fixed before the 64Hz bug. It's the fact that making a change to the game engine will require substantial testing. This means a long time with no other substantial fixes. I'm not sure the game is in a state where that is acceptable. If the goal is to have the 64Hz bug addressed in the next major update (i.e. the first DLC), then that is reasonable. Expecting it to be fixed in the next incremental update is not.


You either didn't read my post or you chose not to comprehend it. In either case, please read the first part of this post - it's not a matter of what I want, it's a matter of what is reasonable. If you refuse to accept what is reasonable and continue to expect the unreasonable, you're completely welcome to do that, but I don't expect that to be a very productive strategy. I think pushing for a fix that coincides with the first major DLC is far more productive.

Honestly I wish BGS would get on this problem right now and fix it, but I live in the real world

All us guys can do is post about it, give as much info as possible about where the issue occurs etc, provide our specs, and hope that BGS can manage to fit in a fix for it with the time they're allocated

It isn't game breaking no, but it's annoying none the less. I'm glad Bethesda are supporting this game as much as they are, and if it never gets fixed I will still be playing in 5 years time. It's just and wait and hope game, maybe they'll have the time, maybe they won't.

This isue has been seen in the last 4 Bethesda releases, not just Skyrim, so it's obviously a game engine problem. And for the record I don't think any "patch" will fix this seeing how they've had 4 games to do so. No, this will require a complete game engine overhaul. At this point it's become Bethesda's signature - Bethesada = microstutter.



And I could say the same thing to you since you obviously missed the intent of this post/thread - To highlight a problem seen on ALL of Bethesda's games, to put enough voices to it that Bethesda takes notice. Not to be unreasonable. Please re-read the first post.

Thank you.

BTW this was also posted at Steam forums - http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2595949

yeah i must admit as much as it pains me to say it, i really dont see this getting fixed, bethesda would of done something about it ages ago, but i really wish they would at least say something about it, has anyone messed around with the ifpsclamp= command, at one point i thought i solved my issues with that command, im having a little play around with it now seeing as though i allmost get constant 60 fps, i read you must have a fps lmiter and set ifpsclamp to whatever you set the fps limiter too, only thing is it has to be constant, otherwise stuff will speed up or slow down, its weird. anyone else tried ifpsclamp command and fps limter??

so after experimenting, the ifpsclamp command 100% fixes the skipping for me, but its not a fix cuz its perfect if you get 60fps or whatever you set the clamp to but if its drops like 5 fps it just ruins the game basicly, its not that often that my fps drops below 60 but its often enough for it to ruin the game, so i cant win, ive tried everything now, it is definatly a game breaker for me, ive tried to ignore it for the last few days but just cant, this game just isnt meant to be played like this, skip skip skip, ffs im so gutted, i really am, gonna go cry now. the worst part is not knowing if its gonna be fixed, and looking at the past its not looking good

Just to add my two cents, I do get obvious micro skipping to this day in Oblivion when I disable the stutter fix mod.

I do not get micro stutter in Skyrim, or if I do it is not noticable on my system. When the frames drop into the 30's and it's choppy I don't see any. When frames jump over 60 in FRAPs (61-63) even with VSnyc on, I don't see any, either. GTX480 and AMD 965 x4. Running my screen at 60hz.

My only point here is that Skyrim and Oblivion behave very differently on my computer, so that old "every bethesda game is the same" argument doesn't seem to apply to me.

I have a decent system but it's a far cry from guys with SLI'd 580 or 680s and I7s.

so i basicly have 2 options now, i can either use ifpsclamp and completly rid myself of this horrible skipping and accept a bit of slow motion, wich hardly ever happens, but when it hapens its not good at all, or turn it off and have skipping every few steps i take, ive set ifpsclamp to 57 as thats the lowest ive seen it drop so far, but the thing is skyrim doesnt seem to like any other fps other then 60 fps, if it even drops to 58 or 57 it feels like its actualy goin at like 10 fps. so yeah i want to play the game so badly thats where im at with this, it is game breaking for me, the constant skipping, i think i might get it worse than others